0.9y-4 XP problems

[CoenP]

Hello,

This is my first post on this forum. I know the focus is on developing on Vista for good reasons, I am however stuck for the moment with XP and I have NO complaints on the SQ!!!!

I have however experienced a few problems before and after activating XXHE on an XP (HE SP3) pc.

1) to start with the most annoying: after activation XX does not play music anymore, nor on #1, nor on #2. It responds with: 'Not enough system resources (memory ?)'
There is for shure enough memory on board (1.5 Gig free on this one) and only one track in the playlist. No upsampling, sound is directed to the 'standard audio device' which is the on board conexant audiothing or my external FW DAC. XX is the only app started by me.

2) My audio pc memory overflows after a 3 or 4 of tracks (>1.2Gbit) and the player stops as result of to little memory left. Note this was with upsampling ticked on.

3) When the XX screen builds it 'forgets' a lot of buttons etc, unless I resize the window or pass the pointerarrow over an -active-button. In full screen mode there is no problem.

4) Under a certain circumstance which I have not been able to reproduce the player jumps suddenly from one track to the next. I observed that the music as I know it hadn't finished yet, however the album/track pointer hit prematurely the end.

5) When player priority is 'real time' the screensaver stops working. This is not a bug, just something that took me some time to realise!

About running XX on XP:
I realise the full potential of XX is only unleashed on vista, but I am very reluctant (yet) to upgrade after experiencing Vista on a far, far more capable PC: its performance (start-up time, application launch, stability) was quite disappointing compared to XP on a p3 866. The UI isn't my cup of thea either, but this might be a getting-used-to-it issue.
People I trust on this matter do still advise XP for a 'trouble free' OS. The hardware requirements would mean that I would need a complete new PC to run Vista for which i do not have the funds at the moment. My PC audio setup consumes very low power to minimise the cooling requirments and thus noise. Beefing up the performance will also inherently require more effort to quieten it all down again.

And something elso a little on-topic: how do I search the forum efficiently since I get way to many results for 'XP' (every eXPerience is also a hit)...

I hope you can help me out on at least the first one soon

Thanks in advance,

regards, Coen

[Calibrator]

G'day Coen ... and ... 

If it's any consolation, I also experience at least points 1) and 3) you mentioned, on my study PC running XP Pro SP2. As I only ever use XXHE on that system for checking coverart etc., I haven't been too bothered about the playback side of things on that PC. ( I use Foobar for that .. ssshhh! ... lol ). I've been meaning to raise the issue with Peter but it hasn't been a high priority for me.

Version 0.9w-7 worked OK , but from memory, any of the "X" and "Y" variants started to exhibit one problem or another.

I've found Vista to be quite reliable for the purposes of what I need on my HTPC, and can only suggest you give it a trial. The most important thing to do is turn off that awful UAC "feature"!.

I daresay Peter will be along soon after his morning coffee to figure out how to cure the XP woes.

Cheers,

Russ ( who surfaces every now and then from his listening chair following the release of 0.9y-4) 

[PeterSt]

I'm afraid I'll have to pass on that morning coffee because it got a little late here.
Later ...

[PeterSt]

Hi Coen,

I have just been doing some testing, and I can confirm your 2) and 3). The "why" is beyond me at this moment, but I guess it is solveable.
Not 1 so far, but I guess this is a kind of logic once the memory problems occur (or the system is prone to that). I don't see how it is related to "Activation", nor do I see the combination of 1) and 2) once 1) occurred. But never mind that.

About 3), yes I saw that myself before, and it even has been reported a month or so back. I tested it here back then, did not see it, and the poster did not see it anymore after an upgrade as well. BUT, what I see myself is that it only is OK after a first start of a new version and the message "Set your Music Root in the Settings Area" is displayed, or actually : as long ad that has not been done and the message shows. So, I guess this never has been solved, and the earlier poster with that same problem just didn't report it anymore after seeing it again, or never has set this "Music Root".

4) seems explainable from another recent post, although about Engine#3, but I think it is the same problem. This - I think - occurs when during playback you click on another track, or load another to the Playlist Area.  A bug, introduced 1 or 2 versions back.

5) I never heard of before, but I sure can imagine it. Btw, it would be a good idea for SQ when the screen saver is shut off, or anyway no moving screensaver is used (which leaves you with no screen saver as intended of course). But, when the RealTime setting causes the screen saver to halt moving, I guess for SQ it is just ok !


I am afraid the real problems, 1 and or 2, will not be solved in a few hours time, because something has happened here probably a relatively long time ago (without people reporting it), with the result of me not knowing where to begin to look. Also, testing is rather tedious as you can imagine, because 2) implies throughput time at testing. On that matter I noticed that this is a typicle case of "Windows decides when to free memory", and while this sometimes goes right, at other situations it just does not. So, it just takes that 4 tracks or so (of certain length) to get there, and when it's allright it may need another 5 times to kind of proove it really does. When it would be solved, only that last time takes 2.5 hours alone, not to speak about possibly many attempts at changing software before it is proven right.
So, the major problem here is that I don't known when this started to happen, because if so I could look and see what was changed at period of time it started to happen. Not nice.

The only thing I can say for now, and which really would be a best advise, is go get yourself Vista or Windows7 along with a new 300 euro PC, and find yourself to have bought a most expensive playback system for 300 + 72 euro only. I mean it. By now the difference is beyond imagination, as is the sound coming from whatever speakers you have once you use the latest 0.9y-4. I normally hold back myself at expressing about SQ, but this time it just would not be justified. I will GUARANTEE you'll hear something you never heard before, no matter what systems you listened to.
In the mean time I *will* solve these problems, but it really won't be in a few days I guess.
Might you say "but I don't care all that much about a best sound ever", I'm afraid you'll have to wait a bit.

In the the other mean time, right now, I am waiting for a third attempt to let it go wrong (Out of memory) for over 30 minutes, but it just won't happen (the 2nd attempt it did). This is - as I notice - because virtual memort hence the swap file is involved (read : used), and theoretically that just should cover for it (which it sometimes just does not, as it appears). This means that in any case highering the swap file size should help, but keep in mind it needs the disk space. Thus, if you are low on disk space on the OS disk, that is the first thing creating the problem.
The real cause, of course, is the player not freeing the memory, which actually is out of my control, but solveable in theory.

Lastly, I just searched the forum myself for that "buttons" problem, but I don't think it is there because I recall this has been a PM back then (never a good thing to do !!).

So far for now,
Peter

[CoenP]

Hi Peter and calibrator,

Thanks for the welcome and the quick and elaborate response. Sorry otoh to bother you with tedious testing on a OS that most XXHE users don't run for music anymore.

Some extra info might be helpfull:

1) I got a new errormessage today (attatched) when starting up XXHE.

2) The OS is on a seperate partition with plenty memory available (40 Gig). I will try increasing the swap file (from 1.5 gig to something higher).

3) setting the music root cured the screen problem like you suggested!

4) I cannot remember what I did to get this situation, I did fiddle with the playlist possibly also with selecting another track. FYI: the 'truncated' playing was at all tracks in the list....

I still think XXHE on XP is no slouch soundwise.

Your suggestion to take the low budget pc route is taken in consideration. I have found the more ambitiuos Vista PC of my wife to resemble a running vacuum cleaner (slightly exgaggerated). PSU, CPU coolingfan and a for some reason allways active harddisc make it so noisy that I fear to have no more than 8 bits of DR left for playing music (LOUDLY).
In the end of the day I will be going to spend some cash on a fanless PSU, fanless case and SSD; I've grown quite allergic to PC noise. In the mean time I can save up and give the in house Vista PC a try on my rig to be experienced by XXHEs true potential.
So Vista/win7 it will be for SQ.

Thanks again,
Coen

[Telstar]

In the end of the day I will be going to spend some cash on a fanless PSU, fanless case and SSD; I've grown quite allergic to PC noise.

Yeah, me too. I thought I could do with a very silent PC, but i was wrong. I need fanless too. Get a DC-DC psu (es. pico-psu) with external transformer, it is safer than fanless AC psus and add no heat to the computer.

[PeterSt]

Coen,

I have been working on this, and it is my conclusion that nobody really has used the Doubling in XP (Engine#2 only). It was an unfinished project (back then), and I think nothing changed causing this now not to work. It just can't work as far as I can see.

When you don't tick this Double checkbox, you may (no will) last a complete CD, but maybe (!) it still is not good. This is not my problem, but Vista's (or actually dot-net), and it looks I can't work around it.
Without Double it may go allright forever, but testing this is undoable. You can see this yourself : the used amount of memory grows and grows, and then suddenly drops (when the OS thinks it is time to free it -> I did that 60 minutes ago, so to say). This should go on like that forever, unless some memory allocation occurs at the wrong time and wrong place. I think this can happen. Now :
With Double, this DOES happen. There too the used memory grows and grows (but much faster because of more memory needed at doubling) and there too it may shrink. But, exactly at the moment it should shrink I need memory for the "doubling". And at least *this* is a wrong thing at the wrong moment.

I have been using Engine#1 in the past myself for a longer time, and that keeps on working forever (but can't really be used on XP unless you have RME - MME drivers, so never mind), and the memory allocation is similar to Engine#2. So I expect Engine#2 to last forever, if you're only not using Double.

I'm afraid in the next version Double for Engine#2 will not be there anymore ...
Peter

[CoenP]

Peter,

Thanks for the trouble. It is like you say. I have noticed no problems with doubling unchecked yet. I will have to live with the inconvenience until Win7 (or Vista?) is operational.

regards, Coen

[PeterSt]

Good Coen !
Anyway, head for Vista (etc.) because it is sooo much better.

Peter