0.9-y3 Annoying noise

[Leon]

Peter,

I don't know what to change anymore. I tried all settings but I cannot get rid of a very annoying noise when using XXHighend. It sounds like static noise, sometimes just a few ticks after each other and then evolving into a real kind of fireworks. It turns out so bad that I cannot use XXhighend. Up until version W I had no problems then it started with version X with some noise now and then, but with version Y it really is very bad. It does not occur on moving the mouse, it just happens in every in evey file I play.

I’ve tried attended and unattended, tried different settings in processor schemes, tried different split file sizes from minimal up to 100Mb, tried conversion at start on and off as goes for copy to xx by standard, played around with different Q settings but nothing really helps.

Could you give me some advise on what I can try more? I don’t have these problems with any other music player, but none of them sound so good as XX so don’t want to put it aside

Using:
AMD Turion, X@ Ultra Dual-Core Mobile ZM-80 2.10 GHz, 3G RAM. 32-bits
Output USB straight to music system (no external DAC)


PS If you can help solve this I really owe you a beer

Regards
Leon
regards Leon

[PeterSt]

Hey Leon, this looks pretty serious ! ... and I am sorry for your problems ...

Yes, I like beer, but let's try to solve this without it and let's assume it is just my fault. Dunno how yet, but let's see;

Ok, you had problems earlier with getting the "install" right. That is behind us but maybe it is related.
A first thing which springs to my mind is that for USB your Q1 might be too high. But, then it must have changed opposed to how you had it before.
Also, talking about "before", is it so that you can still use that before version where everything still worked ? It may be a good thing to try, just in case it is a changed setting since then. Regarding to that, try to write down your current settings, and apply them to the version which worked before. If it then works, let me know, and let know which version that is. If not, we will proceed from there (taking a third beer may help instantly ).

Anyway, looking at what you all tried, that really should not make a difference (but keep in mind the too high Q1). Also, setting the other Q's too high may cause this. So better set them (Q2, 3, 4, 5) to 0 at first.

Output USB straight to music system (no external DAC)

It may be good for me to know what you are talking about here, because I really can't guess what - or how you use this. I mean, you have an external DAC USB connected, or you use an internal "DAC" (mobo soundcard, PCI card) and USB is just not in order. So ???

If everything works again we'll try to have a beer together, but I will be buying. I hope that is okay with you.
Peter


PS: You may have changed the "DAC Needs" setting from 32 bits to 24. If so, set it back to 32 !

[SeVeReD]

EDIT
well of course... listen to Peter first ^^^^

I think this might take awhile, but let's start with USB.  It sounds like usb is the link you're using to get music out.  Can you try all the different usb ports you have?  Can you take off any other USB devices you have running.  Can you shut usb off in the bios and listen, say, with an onboard soundcard... maybe headphones, to see if the problem still persists?  Also, I'd start looking at other programs running.  You say it started after W1... can you go back to older versions and is it really gone? or does it crop up in older XXHE versions now too.

[ivo]

Well, I am using laptop with USB connection to external DAC.
When I started to listen to music this way (Q1=4, other Qs=0) I also heard these "fireworks" as Leon says, but not all the time. It was happening periodically. So, I increased Q1=14 and it was 99% gone. Just sometimes there are some lonely ticks.
Now I experiment with other Qs and if Q2-Q5 are set, e.g., to 15 then no fireworks are there at all. Still if I move Q1 to 4 then it is back again.

This does not happen with Foobar over WASAPi and with XMPlay over WASAPi.

[Leon]

Hi Peter, SeveRed What's your name again??

Thanks for the info.
Yes the previous installation problem was caused by changing only one field in my shortcut and correcting that solved that problem.

First, I am using a Xmod Creative external USB soundcard which is linked to my soundsystem.
The previous version working well for me was version W 9b

I now copied the settings for Q from version W to version Y, which means I changed Q1=4 into Q1=14, all others where allready at 0
The fields for 24 or 32 bit won't work here, both are not selected. Copying the settings didn't change the noise

I now listened for quite some time to the system and the noise is not as terribe as before but still very audible from time to time.
I also changed the usb ports, but that didn't make any difference.
I will do some more testing tomorrow on differen Q settings and will let you know the results.

Thanks for now and I'll hold you to that beer Peter (tijd voor een gebruikersdag?)
Ciao
Leon

[PeterSt]

I now copied the settings for Q from version W to version Y, which means I changed Q1=4 into Q1=14, all others where allready at 0
The fields for 24 or 32 bit won't work here, both are not selected. Copying the settings didn't change the noise

What I meant was the other way around; does your W version today still work ? (you must actually try, not only "have it in mind")


Isn't that Xmod Crearive more than 16 bits ? I didn't look it up but if so, DAC Needs really should be set to 32 (not that this will matter for this problem).

(beer bbeer bbezzz, bzzz)

[Leon]

I now copied the settings for Q from version W to version Y, which means I changed Q1=4 into Q1=14, all others where allready at 0
The fields for 24 or 32 bit won't work here, both are not selected. Copying the settings didn't change the noise

What I meant was the other way around; does your W version today still work ? (you must actually try, not only "have it in mind")


Isn't that Xmod Crearive more than 16 bits ? I didn't look it up but if so, DAC Needs really should be set to 32 (not that this will matter for this problem).

(beer bbeer bbezzz, bzzz)

Yup version W still works, I tried the other way around with no luck.
I tried the Xmod on higher bitrate, but if fails working then, resulting in a arror.
the only stuff I can influenze is the kHz. I cannot select the DAC needs 32

sleep well
Ciao for now
Leon

[PeterSt]

Leon !

I especially went here to ask how you were doing, but discovered your last post which I have completely missed before. SORRY !

So ... something must be wrong with your perception of how the DAC settings should be set, or something is going on beyond my current knowledge.

I tried to find the specs of this thing, but - and I am sorry - can't find anything that even wants to show specs. So, now I don't know how to help.
If you don't know yourself the specs (and I am afraid this will be the case ) then how can we know what to set the XX settings to. And yes, I understand that a before version worked, but this does not imply now something is wrong. It does imply that you (we) must know the specs better than before, because there's more differentiation in the control of the sound devices (like 24 vs 32 bit padding).

If you receive errors, please show the contents. But, do this for the various common bit depths and rates existing. Example :

DAC Is 16/44.1  DAC Needs 24 Play 16/44.1 file, Error : (and then the contents of the message with a sequence of numbers).
DAC Is 16/44.1  DAC Needs 32 Play 16/44.1 file, Error : (and then the contents of the message with a sequence of numbers).
DAC Is 24/44.1  DAC Needs 24 Play 16/44.1 file, Error : (and then the contents of the message with a sequence of numbers).
DAC Is 24/44.1  DAC Needs 32 Play 16/44.1 file, Error : (and then the contents of the message with a sequence of numbers).
DAC Is 24/96    DAC Needs 24 Play 16/44.1 file, Error : (and then the contents of the message with a sequence of numbers).
DAC Is 24/96    DAC Needs 32 Play 16/44.1 file, Error : (and then the contents of the message with a sequence of numbers).
DAC Is 24/96    DAC Needs 24 Play 16/44.1 file with Double, Error : (and then the contents of the message with a sequence of numbers).
DAC Is 24/96    DAC Needs 32 Play 16/44.1 file with Double, Error : (and then the contents of the message with a sequence of numbers).

The above seems sufficient for me for some conclusions. Of course, when there's no error you will tell that.

the only stuff I can influenze is the kHz. I cannot select the DAC needs 32

This looks odd to me, or I can't understand. So what you basically say is that any 24 bit setting doesn't work ? Keep in mind that your literal "I can not select DAC needs 32" can never be true. Even if you connect your mother in law to it, you will be able to do that. But, it is related to DAC Is, and when that is set to a 16 bit setting, you indeed can not.

Btw, let's keep in mind that I think it indeed can be so that now (0.9y) your device can't be set to its best setting anymore, IOW it is my fault. But I wouldn't know how yet. If this is so (my fault) in here : http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=888.msg7172#msg7172 there's an XXEngine3 version which may work. Please be VERY careful in keeping track which version is what, because you won't be able to see it. Maybe the number of bytes differ, I don't know. But that assuming, carefully right down which is which in order to revert to the normal 0.9y-3 situation later (may be needed for further testing). IF THIS HELPS, pleeaaaze show the above mentioned message sequence (and if they are there) for that situation.

Do ask if things are not clear, and correct answers for wrong situations will be more confusing only. So ask first when you think it is needed. No problem !

Peter

[Leon]

Hi Peter,

Okay, first of all here are the error messages I get when trying to set the Dac settings at a higher lever than 16: see clips 1 to 4

the error messages are the same for any setting on a higher bit depth

I get no error messages on 16 bit depth regardless the frequency

I tried the other XXengine3.exe you were mentioning but alas with no difference, so the cracking sounds are still there
I also tried the engine3 exe from version W but that gave error messages as you can see in the combination clip (knipsel5) and wouldn't play at all.

So I've put back the original Engine3.exe (0.9y) to my directory of 0.9y and set the Q1 on 14. In that setting the noise is there just every now and then, iow bearable.

As far as specs concerned for the Xmod, I could not find any details about it either. But I did realize I gave wrong information. The Xmod is connected to a wireless usb audio sender and not connected directly to an usb port. reason for that was that with a direct usb link of the Xmod I got a disturbing high tone (caused by the fan or by the hdd, don't know) and when connected to the SV-1740 R00 there was no noise at all. ............ Still with me??

So my music system is connected with my pc through:
USB port to SV-1740 R00 Digital Audio transmitter via RS 232 to Xmod soundcard to my music system

Hope to have clarified a few things now 


ciao
Leon

[PeterSt]

Ok, thanks. Before proceeding :

the error messages are the same for any setting on a higher bit depth

... which doesn't tell anything about the DAC Needs 32 bit setting (here you used 24 as far as I can see).

?

[boleary]

Don't know if this will help, but there may be more than one problem going on for you, Leon. I got rid of occasional clicks and pops by running the DPD Latency Checker program (downloaded from the net after google search)that somebody in the XX community recommended (probably Peter). That program helped me to determine that I needed to disable my wireless soundcard to have music free of occasional clicks and pops.

[PeterSt]

Well, I of course only now realize that there's wireless in the game, and anyway that should be avoided. A-n-y-way.
I have already been thinking what ever could have changed in the program that Leon now is bugged with this (other than your problem boleary), but I can't think of anything but the audio engine being a tad more demanding (which for example may result in services to be shut down by Vista sooner than before). So Leon, a few questions spring from this :

1. You were using the wireless before ? (the XMod can be cable connected just the same I think);

2. Are you 100% sure you weren't using a special setting which now has been removed from the player as there were the Mem and Ldn checkbox ?

3. Any problems at using the cable connection ?

For yourself, try to imagine that the Audio Engine is eating CPU for a so long time and so firm that nothing else can get it until the Audio Engine is at rest (which happens many times per second anyway). It is not easy to explain (or know) how this exactly works and works out (CPU usage seems 0 anyway), but this is related to the Processor Appointment Schemes, the priorities, the Q settings. What I would do in your case is set Q1 neutral (this would be 14), leave the other Q's at 0, set the Appointment Scheme to Nothing, both Priorities to Nothing. And reboot after that !!
What you will have done now is creating NOT the best environment for Sound Quality, but a far better environment for the other stuff like your ever pinging wireless. If you sense a difference for the better, try setting PlayerPrio somewhat higher than the ThreadPrio (reboot not necessary now). This again will create a better environment for the other stuff at the cost of inherent SQ.

Whether this helps or not ... ditch the wireless.

[Leon]

Peter,

I could see that one coming  about ditching the wireless I mean.
I will do the settings as you suggested and let you know the results.

The one and only reason I plugged the wireless in between (for the last 18 months or so) is that both my previous laptop as the one I am using now is sending a even more disturbing noise related to the speed of the cooling fan or the spinning up and down of the hdd. It's the same kind of noise you could hear when driving old cars where the dynamo was sending a high modulating tone to your car radio
That noise was there regardless of the music player, and with the wireless audio connection it was gone.

About selecting the DAC needs 24 or 32 box, you are right I can select it when I set the the depth higher than 16. I still get the same messages and it won't play, but I can select or deselect them.

All in all Peter, I accept the noise level as it is, like I said before, it is bearable now so don't put more effort on it than you allready did

Might there be any changes in other settings (for the better) I will post it

thanks and ciao for now
Leon

[PeterSt]

All in all Peter, I accept the noise level as it is, like I said before, it is bearable now so don't put more effort on it than you allready did

But this is not "sport" ! ok, just kidding, but if it worked before on a more acceptable level, I want to know why ...
Maybe not until I drop dead, but it is just good to know the reason. So if you want to try those things, the least I can (and will) do is try to draw conclusions from there.

Btw, I guess the dynamo thing is a ground connection which shouldn't be there ... (from the PC to the stereo that is).

[Leon]

Hi Peter

Fair enough, I'll try and do my utmost too.

this may sound stupid , but how does one ground a laptop when the power supply is one without a grounded plug?

leon