32Bit Floating Point / 192 KHz files

[manisandher]

Hi Peter,

Yes, it’s been too long..

The house move was more protracted than I had hoped. But the real reason for my absence was my real disappointment in learning that my two sound cards (the FF800 and MOTU896HD) both have a detrimental effect on the sound when used to pass an spdif stream from my PC to my DAC – they can’t pass an HDCD-encoded wav file unaltered, unless their mixers are manipulated.

I really lost my interest in using a computer-based system and reverted to using my Esoteric P70 for most of my listening. It's actually a very good transport...

But my interest has been resurrected now that I’ve ordered a ‘real’ interface (the Weiss AFI1) and also with the availability of high-res downloads. And hence the purpose of this post...

I’ve recently received a copy of Unipheye Music’s ‘The Karp Segall Experiment’. This is a 32Bit Floating Point / 192KHz recording. Interesting music, but not really my ‘cup of tea’. And I really dislike the fact that the these files have been converted from original DSD files (I was an early adopter of SACD and really hated it... still do...). No, I’m not going to paste any Digicheck images, but if I were to, you’d see -50dB noise at 81KHz. That’s DSD for you!

Right now, I can only play these files on Foobar, using WASAPI. XXHE refuses to play these files with the crack detect enabled. If I disable crack detect, and set the DAC to 24Bit/192, I get a God-awful noise coming through the speakers.

As you’ve probably gathered, I’m not that bothered if I can get XXHE to play these files or not... but it might be useful in the future.

Any ideas?

Mani.

[PeterSt]

Hi Mani, thank you for posting this.

Yes, I have an idea ... Well, I think I have;
While everything plays at 32 bits (once the DAC has more than 16 bits), I don't think I anticipate on 32 bit input files. Think of something like

If not file = 16 bit then
  file = 24 bit.

This may look a kind of stupid because this data can be just read from the file, but it is about the explicit telling to WASAPI what the bit depth is which by itself goes with tricks and tweaks (because it is half flawed).

Now, because you are so nicely willing to make this clear without own benefit, I want to solve it indeed for everyone, may it ever be needed. Solving means testing, and I never saw such a file coming by. Therefore I want to ask you whether you are willing to email that file to me to sales at the phasure com address. You can go here to send large files : http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=721.0
Please note that it is not the beast idea to cut the file, because it will destroy the original length data in the header, and it might be specially organized (I just don't know yet).
But if I can buy it somewhere, that's very okay with me. But then you might have a link for me ?


On your problems ...
Yes, I recall you mentioning it at DIYA. Nothing came from RME ?
Btw, as how you write it now, it looks like I should be having a problem with it too ? ... and oh, I don't use the Fireface anymore. (a most special I2S connected DAC instead hehe).

Curious what the Weiss will bring you ...
Peter

[manisandher]

Peter,

Thanks for your prompt reply.

I'd be happy to send you a 32/192 file. They're big, of course - the shortest track I have is 750MB. Leave this with me...

Meanwhile, you can go to http://www.unipheyemusic.com/filetest.cfm and download a 30 sec 32/192 file for testing. According to them, the 32/192 files sound better than the 24/192 files; both having been converted from the same 1bit DSD source. (Why not just record in PCM in the first place???)

Yes, your 24/192 Phasure NOS1 DAC sounds intriguing. Where can I find more information about it?

Mani.

[PeterSt]

Thanks, that link will just do fine !

Why not just record in PCM in the first place???

Oh, but that is being done. That's DXD (e.g. 2L does it).

Peter

[manisandher]

Yes, but 2L don't offer the 'raw' 24/352.8 files - they convert to 24/192 or lower-res PCM and to DSD.

All I would like are 24/88.2 or 24/176.4 'raw' files that have not been 'mastered' or converted in any way, shape or form...

Mani.

PS. The 750MB 32/192 is on its way to you.

[PeterSt]

But they do ... http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html
Of course this is sample material (full length files though), and I guess (no, I bet) they will sell it either, if you only ask.
But how to play them ?

Btw, I have gotten some downsampled (from 352.8 ) to 24/176.4 from them (specially made for me). But then I needed that for testing XXHE (which they knew). So, they can do it, and will do it, and I guess they also will do it if you just pay for it.


And thanks for the file ...


Edit : Note that I just know they record in DXD. They do that (anyone for that matter) because DXD can be edited while DSD hardly can. Careful though, because they also can convert existing DSD material to DXD. So I guess you must find out what they really recorded, and what was just converted. Also, the fact that they sell it as SACD says nothing. How to sell (play) it otherwise ?

[manisandher]

Yes, your 24/192 Phasure NOS1 DAC sounds intriguing. Where can I find more information about it?

Just glanced over http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=642.0.

Glad you found the PCM1704-UK chip. My Esoteric D70 uses 4 of these as well... but it's an OS DAC, of course! My previous CD player used the PCM63-K chip - also very good.

I agree with Telstar though - I believe the clock should sit as close to the DAC chips as possible. All sources should be slaved to this clock. I would therefore insist on a wordclock output rather than an input. People who don't have the means to try this really do not know what they're missing.

Back on topic - the 32/192 file transfer failed. I'm trying again now...

Mani.

[PeterSt]

I would therefore insist on a wordclock output rather than an input.

Oh, but we're working on that one.

Mani, don't make too much fuzz about the file. I have that sample bit !

[manisandher]

Also, the fact that they sell it as SACD says nothing. How to sell (play) it otherwise ?

I've downloaded some of their 24/352.8 files and they play fine on XXHE...

... provided the Mem box is checked and the DAC is set to 32/192.

But you knew that, right Peter?

Interestingly, Digicheck believes these are 176.4 files. Is XXHE downconverting?

Mani.

[PeterSt]

Is your DAC 352.8 capable ? hahahaha (now don't say it is and remember, the Fireface reports that wrongly (see your DAC Test report) It even tries to play it ... very distorted)

So yes, in this special occasion (352.8 is offered, DAC can do 192) it downsamples.

Mem box should not be needed though, BUT, you will need to limit the file parts loaded (to 100MB will do I think).
There's a thread hanging around somewhere, "How to play hires files".
Ok, here : How to play Hires files.

Peter

[PeterSt]

... provided the Mem box is checked and the DAC is set to 32/192.

Btw, the DAC should always be set to what it really is. So, 24/192 in your case.
Well, I guess.

[manisandher]

If I set the DAC to 24/192 I get the 'INVALIDARG' message.

But 32/192 works fine.

You may recall from my rantings last year that for 16/44.1 files, I preferred setting the DAC to 16/44.1. Once I get the AFI1, I'll reassess everything.

Mani.