Spdif digital out only???

[tricka]

okey dokey
Vista Ultimate SP1; Latest XX High End D/L 09-x5b.
have been mucking around with this for 2 days now  .
This is what I have found:
1. this is non inituitive, even for a linux user;
2. seems that digital out via spdif is the only available connection under XX High End; in particular it doesn't recognise firewire (KRK Ergo Dac/ Weiss Firewire Dac).

I've got past the instal/admin/digital certifcate issues with Vista but so far can only see XX High End working with spdif out. Is this so?

Yours in frustration

Andrew Stenhouse

[PeterSt]

hehehe




Shouldn't Linux users be banned in advance ? one never knows what harm they can cause to a Windows PC ...

Anyway ...
First of all, I don't think I saw a Weiss user around here yet. So, I can't judge that one, and I know of at least one DAC which can't be addressed by WASAPI. But let's not assume it is this that what is bugging you.
Firewire for sure can be used, and many people here do that (many = ten(th)s of them). All will be using a Fireface though, and I am one of them.

What is not transparant at all, is how to use Firewire in this case. Right now I can't tell how familair you are with that, but in the end the least it will be able to support is ... SPDIF. But, other transport layers like (8 channel) ADAT just work as well. So it can't be that.
In any case you should be seeing the enabled SPDIF or ADAT devices in the Sound Device list (Settings Area, and it works with 0.9x-5b only; otherwise the device concerned has to be set to the Primary Sound Device).

Now, you actually did not tell *why* you think XX does not recognize the devices you want to use, or how it expresses. So, possibly they do show up in the list I talked about, and something else is the matter (like no sound, or end point create failed message).
If the first ... see above, if the latter, you could post a Dac Test report (Dac Test is the one but last option in the "DAC Is" combobox in the Settings Area). Play the DAC Test with a 16/44.1 WAV file.

Now, let's see where this will bring us !
Peter

[tricka]

Ha ha ha
yes Linux users should be banned from Windows....it's too frustrating .
Righto..you are quite correct in your assumptions...I do see all my devices in the Settings area and can select them as will as primary sound. Yes you are quite right the the error is a Create Endpoint error = no sound. Test dac shows no formats supported with any device, shared test dac show all formats supported.
My apologies for the lack of screenshots. Hopefully today I will get a chance to get some shots up.
Thanks for your help.
Cheers
A

[PeterSt]

shared test dac show all formats supported

Hi Andrew,

This Shared Dac Test is not official (I didn't even anounce it at any time), but theoretically -if that does show supported rates while Exclusive (the one but last Dac Test in the list) does not show them- it would mean that the rates shown at shared are only supported after resampling.

Don't hang me on this, because it's not official, hence not worked out decently.

The gerenal problem is that when the official Dac Test does not show support at certain rates (or all), the Dac doesn't talk properly back to the OS, or indeed does not support it. In your Firewire case I hardly can believe that though, and I only know it of USB devices. Otoh, the only experience I (we here) have on Firewire is the RME Fireface. And some propriatary Firewire interface I created for myself to the DAC ... that worked too.

I hope we can work it out ...
Peter

[PeterSt]

It just slips into my mind (besides it should be VERY late at you last posting) ... do your Firewire devices show as "Loudspeakers" or as SPDIF or ADAT ? If Loudspeakers, you will be using XP drivers, and that may be the culprit.

?

[tricka]

yes they show up as loudspeakers ah ha! So yes XP drivers huh.
Hmmmm...annoying.
Might be time to buy a new firewire dac. My apologies - I don't have a Weiss...I meant to say that is what I was looking at buying and so had in mind for use. Purely KRK at the moment.
Perhaps an RME would be better. I have had a RME 9632 and it was my favourite Prosumer card. Super stable.
Ok thanks again.
Cheers
Andrew

[tricka]

okey...
bit more fiddling and I have sound out from the onboard HDA s/c through the "Primary Sound device" = front speakers. No more errors.
Now I see what the fuss is about - very very good sound quality; >> than ASIO (which i have never really liked). Better than with what I have achieved with Linux for sure.
next up will be the firewire...hmmmm.
Onwards and upwards
Cheers
A

[PeterSt]

G'day Andrew,

Before I get blamed for wrong advices :

All will be using a Fireface though, and I am one of them.

... but none of them is using it as a DAC, which is what you probably perceived from what I said. The RME Fireface is always used as an outboard soundcard and passes through SPDIF to the audiophile DAC. I know, quite an expensive means to pass through SPDIF ...

Personally I'd never use the "pro" devices for a DAC. I guess that includes a Weiss ...
But then I am into non-oversampling (with reasons), so I would never end up at the pro devices by nature ...

Peter

[manisandher]

Hi All,

I had a problem getting my FF800 to work as a DAC (as opposed to simply an spdif passthrough device).

Neither of the following worked:
1. selecting 'Speakers RME Fireface 800' as the default speakers in Vista and selecting 'Primary Sound Device' in XX
2. selecting 'Speakers RME Fireface 800' in XX

In both of these cases, the sound was still being piped to the soundcard in my laptop (even if when NOT selected as the default device in Vista).

But selecting 'SPDIF Interface RME Fireface 800' did work, as did all the other various analogue and digital outputs.

The solution was to simply disable the in-build soundcard (there seems to be a conflict going on here).

Everything works fine now...

... and 0.9x-5b sounds very good indeed. (I'll post more about the sound when I receive a Weiss AFI1 interface to replace the FF800 very soon.)

Mani.

[PeterSt]

Mani !!!

You once anounced you got moving which would take you quite some time. I guess you now did, right ?

Personally I'd love to see your postings again !
I was quite on my own with the digicheck and all, lately.

[tricka]

Cool - I have XX HE playing in exclsive mode for the on board s/c: excellent.

The KRK drivers are Xp but vista compliant . I was hoping to use firewire and avoid the problems with rca spdif out - or is my understanding wrong and firewire just another form of spdif?

Spoke to Calibrator (thanks Russ) and I believe we agreed the easiest way would be to get a decent vista card that supported spdif eg the Julie or RME's and run spdif into my KRK.

Incidentally does  the REM interface support other non RME firewire devices? I understand they have their own bus transport protocols instead oif the usual 1394.

Oh Nos vs not NOS....well that is to me less of a philospical discussion but rather how well each approach is implemented. 

Thanks
Andrew

ps Calibratr mentioned a thread way back when that has some cmd line to get rid of the bloat wear in Vista..any idea off the top of your head where it is?

Thanks
A

[Calibrator]

ps Calibratr mentioned a thread way back when that has some cmd line to get rid of the bloat wear in Vista..any idea off the top of your head where it is?

Hi Andy,

the batch job is attached at the bottom of this post ...

http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=548.msg4331#msg4331

If you look at the first post in that thread and read all the way thru you'll be as geeky as many of us at the end .. LOL

Cheers,

Russ

[PeterSt]

The KRK drivers are Xp but vista compliant . I was hoping to use firewire and avoid the problems with rca spdif out - or is my understanding wrong and firewire just another form of spdif?

Vista compliant : Yeah, this happens more often. But that is different from squeezing out all the stuff Vista has in it. So, in this case you are dealing with "WASAPI" (which is another means of producing sound, like DirectSound is another), and for that to go the explicit support is needed. The "compliant" can be seen as : it will run e.g. DirectSound on Vista like it does on XP. On that matter, Engine#1 and #2 will just do OK in Vista under those compliant devices.

Understanding Firewire and how it can carry SPDIF is not the easiest task. I may have been the first exploring this for audiophools' reasons (must have been 2005), and although in the pro world this all will be common stuff, for us this seems a strange combination of things which is far from intuitive.
It is best and most easy to just learn that it is so ... "Firewire can carry SPDIF". With this in mind, it is only a matter of getting it out at the other end of the cable.

A Firewire device which indeed shows all as should does help a lot of course. But think of this :
Once all the drivers are installed for such a device, and the device is Firewire connected to the PC, the PC shows all the sound devices. Amongst them is an SPDIF device, and to the user this is no different from thinking you have a coax (or toslink) cable going somewhere, and that at the other end an SPDIF connected device is hanging around. To make it even more clear : under XP the Fireface will show two SPDIF devices. One "normal" and one MME driven device. MME is a certain topology present under XP, but not there under Vista. Anyway, two SPDIF devices, and one cable only. It is sorted out within the Fireface (or within the driver).
Besides (for pro devices) ADAT devices will be there. ADAT is not different from SPDIF, apart from that it supports 8 channels per ADAT device instead of 2. Thus, when you'd choose an ADAT device, you'd be having 8 channels, and when you use the first 2, you again have "SPDIF". This comes down to the capability of using 4 SPDIF channels onto the one device. This can actually be used for e.g. DTS if the DTS stream is decoded in software, and the 6 channels can be output over ADAT. In (e.g.) the Fireface they are all available, and you could decide to pass the two main channeles through as SPDIF to the audiophile DAC, and let the other 4 play by the Fireface, and connect the mid, subwoofer etc. to the analogue out there.

Spoke to Calibrator (thanks Russ) and I believe we agreed the easiest way would be to get a decent vista card that supported spdif eg the Julie or RME's and run spdif into my KRK.

To my own experience (and I'm sure Russ's too) the Juli@ is a good option. And far less expensive than a FF.

Incidentally does  the REM interface support other non RME firewire devices? I understand they have their own bus transport protocols instead oif the usual 1394.

I am not aware of this. If you mean, use it as a network hub ... that won't go, because there are no Firewire outputs on it.

HTH a bit !
Peter

[tricka]

Thank you Peter and Russ
that explained things nicely. Apologies it was late at night when I typed. What I meant to say was RME use their own bus protocols for 1394 transmission..but will they work with any firewire device (if you get the RME firwire PCI interface).
I will continue on the journey
Cheers
Andrew
ps I will buy a copy today.

[PeterSt]

Hahaha, I still don't understand. Does RME have something like a PCI Firewire interface ? maybe they have, but I don't think so ...

You would have

a. A random PCI Firewire interface card, or the one provided by the motherboard (never good !).

b. A random Firewire device connected to it. Could be a disk, a sat-receiver, an outboard soundcard, an RME Fireface ...

I really wouldn't know where RME would use their own 1394 protocol. Maybe they do, but then it goes unnoticed. To me anyway.