Most convenient Storage Structure ?

[PeterSt]

Okay, here's my attempt for the physical structure on disk, assuming no additional aids are present to help you conveniently browsing your albums.

First of all, lets see what you'd want to achieve :

This shows the albums in a comfortable size.


And what you do not want to achieve :

This shows the behaviour of XP when more than one album is contained in a folder. Thus, here we created dedicated folders for the artists. One for De Le Sould, one for Deep Purple, one for Diana Krall, etc.
From a hierarchical point of view, and browsing fast through the artists which you probably want to choose first, and withing there the album, this looks nice. However, apart from the *not* comfortable size, there's only 4 albums to show. When you'd have more of an artist, they don't show ...

This is how Vista shows it (the albums are diffent) :

So clearly, this is even worse. Besides the very uncomfortable 3D look, now only 2 albums are shown ! So, there really are 10 Pink Floyd albums in there ...
Note : Vista can show the albums in 2D look, and one per "folder" (as in the first picture above). This is achieved by using the Search function. However, firstly so far the Search function is unstable, awkward or just not understandable, *and* it requires rather deep settings (to rather properly show all, refresh all, etc.) which is just nothing for a normal human being. Secondly, the then shown folders can only be opened with rightclick and choosing "open location" from a context menu. Really a slowish thing.


Below picture shows how we achieved the first situation above :

So what you see here, is that all albumnames are qualified with the artist name. This is now needed because
- we don't use hierarchical folders for the artists (see above)
- we need the artistname really.

This disadvantage of this way of working may be the enormous "flat" browsing you'd have to do to find an album. There's no hierarchical means to tear things down. So all is "flat" indeed.
The advantage may be that by this means it is more easy to find your latest new albums; My own experience tells me that -if you'd have separate folders for the artists, you just do not have any means to bump into this new album. You'd have to dive into each artist folder to achieve that ...
And do remember : you will end up with well over 1000 albums at some stage ...


Here's what to do with multi volume albums :

As you can see, this means of working - having all the volumes in one folder - requires each track to be prefixed with the volume "ID".
If you do not do so, you'd have a sequence of
01 - In The Flesh
01 - Hey You
02 - The Thin Ice
02 - Is There Anybody Out There
and you really wouldn't want that.

The disadvantage of this way of working is that this needs additional work at/after ripping; the "(CD1)" or what ever you want for that, does not go in there by automation. And I don't think any means exist to let the ripping program (e.g. EAC) automatically let prefix your tracks with something like this (*and* you'd have a prefix for all tracks, including the 1-volume albums). Maybe others know better ...


Here's s good alternative though (but note that "The Wall" should be "Pink Floyd - The Wall" according to the above) :

Here you see that each volume is contained in its own folder. Like with the previous example you could determine your own "(CD1)" qualifier, here you can determine the foldername yourself. Do note though, that in both cases the alphabetical sequence must match the physical volume sequence (well, that would be rather logical, right ?).

I must note that this way of working might not work for other players than XXHighEnd at showing the album cover. That is, the folder.jpg where the cover is stored in, will just not (or even should not) be at this "volume" level. It really should be at the album level. XXHighEnd will search upwards in the folder tree for it, so no problem with that.

This means of storing multiple volumes is really comfortable, because at ripping it's very easy to create the subfolders (especially if you name them "1" and "2" etc.), *and* you'd nicely have a volume together for its tracks. However, if you really like to play the complete album for its both volumes, this would be a kind of disadvantage. "Kind of" because, of course, it is very easy to drag both volumes in the playlist area (of XX anyway).


Here an example of something you could do wrong :

Here each track is qualified by the artist name. This is not *really* wrong of course, but it will prevent you more from reading the actual track name, mainly because of the physical space needed, and as you will know the name of classical albums may grow inconveniently long (shoving out the track name at the right side).
Of course this needs the artist name to be shown continuesly (at playing), but XXHighEnd does just that.

Now note that with this last example something else is wrong; Where we assumed the artist name to be shown in the track name, it could just as well be the album name. As we understand, it can't be both here, no matter whether the album would be named the same as the artist name (often occurring with a first album). So if you'd be doing something like this, you'd have to add *and* the artist name *and* the album name.
But there's really no reason to.
The most important reason to this being really "wrong", is that it would be redundant. This is a phenomenon which always gets on your tail some day, which would be about changing things; when things are redundant, you'd need to change it more than once, or at more than one place, etc.


If there's anyone with additions, or better ideas ? please say so !

[SeVeReD]

Peter
This is what I had been doing
With EAC I had ripped doing this, %A - %Y - %C - %N - %T , for file name construction:
Artist - Year - Cd title - track Number - Track title

!PeterSt suggests!
If I've read what you've written above, you suggest just, %N - %T
track Number - Track title

and to put these in a folder called, Artist - CD Title

Just checking.  Is this still your recomendation for ripping CDs.

edit:

Actually, I don't think it would hurt to add the year in the folder name...(what do you think?)
Artist - CD Title - Year

Anyway, I'm thinking about reripping my single album cue/wav files into multi song wav/cue using Daemon tools cd emulator software... takes about 30 seconds... i knew cue files were good for something. (load cue file into daemon tools > EAC > Create Cue Sheet - current gap settings > Copy selected tracks Uncompressed...30 seconds later i have another rip of my files, takes longer to name the folder :/ )... I'd start collecting cue files for your collection, may make it easier at some point.

yea again... I won't have to rewrite my directory structure.  just remembered xcopy and looked up switches  from msdos (command prompt):
xcopy /t /e e:\ g:\
copied my jazz directory (& sub directory) from Hardrive e: to HD g: without copying files in those dir. yea again... going to save a ton of time

[PeterSt]

Adding the Year at the right side wouldn't harm, but be careful that you always (still) know the year.
Now I think of it, personally I would really like the albums per artist sorted by Year ... This would imply Artist - Year - CD Title.

All 'n all it is rather complicated to do it really well, when it is about sorting and finding back, all combined with the pictures ...
I have in my head how I'd want it, hence how it will be, but there are other "things" to explore first. These "things" is about all the data Vista provides for already music only. Dit you see the, say, hundreds of fields for that ? So, if it is not awkward to use them (and assign them by batches) ... and we won't loose it at copying the data to another disk etc. etc., maybe that is something to hunt for (but my expectations are not too high here).

Best would be if there's no explicit means needed, but if you want to search for things like genre, explicit means are unavoidable.

In the end the most important is that you must be independent from the physical structure and storage location. Why ? because then you can today do what you want, or can even make mistakes with it.
That would need the player to provide it all ...

[soundcheck]

I'd recommend to also put the CD title (or all other information you like) into the filename.
You should be able to use a filter in the application to choose which fields to be shown.
In case you're generating  playlists, comprising  other than the original CD-folder tracks
you'll lack the CD, year or whatever  information.

I do not use any cue-sheets (the big mess!). I just extract anything from the filename.

Better think twice before you start the ripping-journey. I've been through that filename mess once - and spent quite some time to get it all fixed!

Cheers

[SeVeReD]

Ok,
How about for an album with Various Artists
So, I create a folder for the ripped CD . Then,
EAC using freedb info, wants to create a sub-folder called Various in my created folder and put all the wav files in that.
So,
I have my folder named(example):
"Various - Bona Fide Bluegrass & Mountain Music"
that I create.  Then eac using freedb info creates another folder called
Various in "Various - Bona Fide Bluegrass & Mountain Music"
and puts all the wav files in there... (sigh, I guess this is just a concern because I use cue files and the cue file is outside the
Various folder in "Various - Bona Fide Bluegrass & Mountain Music"
and points to the Various folder.  If I want to drag all those wav files to the folder called
"Various - Bona Fide Bluegrass & Mountain Music"
I'll need to manually edit the cue file... if I care to have it valid.
Anyhoo
I'm going to guess that you (would) pull all the wav files out of the subdirectory called Various that EAC/freedb creates and pull them up to the "Various - Bona Fide Bluegrass & Mountain Music"
that you've created for the album. ? and just delete the subfolder Various.
How do you, PeterSt, have various artist albums listed in your wav files.

[SeVeReD]

Ok I think I've got it figured out... hehe ya right
In EAC > EAC Options > File Name (tab) I had "Use Various Artist Naming Scheme" checked/selected.(that's what was forcing the subfolder "Various"  I unchecked that and am changing my "Naming Scheme" for Various Artists albums to:
%N - %A - %Y - %C - %T

Normally (for non-Various Artists albums)I have it as:
%A - %Y - %C - %N - %T
(eg. Bebo Valdés & Diego El Cigala - 2003 - Lágrimas Negras - 01 - Inolvidable)
(it number orders fine in XXHE because artist - Year - CD title stay the same... so orders by first difference, number, normally.  For various artists I've changed it so the number comes first since Artist changes for every track and XXHE then plays songs out of order)
So for Various Artist eg.
Under Foobar using the cue then I get: (just for reference to cue... i don't listen to foobar anymore)
01. Various Artists - [Bona Fide Bluegrass & Mountain Music #01] The Big Rock Candy Mountains // Harry McClintock

Under XXHE I get:
01 - Harry McClintock -  - Bona Fide Bluegrass & Mountain Music - The Big Rock Candy Mountains

(year isn't in there cause I didn't list it in EAC, each song is from a different year :/ , that's why the  - - ... should probably take that out of naming scheme for those type of albums... here we go again)

edit:
should I have "Replace spaces by underscores" checked in Filename tab of EAC?  That doesn't matter does it?  I have it unchecked.  hehe I've only started in on the reripping of the "Folk" part of my collection, so stop me before I go too far if you see something wrong... and ya thank goodness for being able to xcopy my dir structure and using cue files and daemon tools instead of going back to my cds.

[Chris V]

This all seems too simple - I must be missing something?

On my new hard drive I have created a system based on folders, with 5 layers of depth

Top layer is genres such as:

• Country
  Pop
  Classics
  Irish
  Jazz
  etc

Second layer is:

• Solo male
  Solo female
  Group male
  Croup female
  Group mixed

Third layer is performers name (eg under Country - solo female);

• Reba McEntire
  Gretchen Wilson
  Shania Twain
  Alison Krauss
  etc

Fourth layer is Album tiltles for each selected artist.

Fifth layer is the album itself from EAC with track numbers, titles, lengths, and album artwork.

I can get to any album or track with 5 clicks of the mouse

[SeVeReD]

This all seems too simple - I must be missing something?

On my new hard drive I have created a system based on folders, with 5 layers of depth

Top layer is genres such as:

• Country
  Pop
  Classics
  Irish
  Jazz
  etc

Second layer is:

• Solo male
  Solo female
  Group male
  Croup female
  Group mixed

Third layer is performers name (eg under Country - solo female);

• Reba McEntire
  Gretchen Wilson
  Shania Twain
  Alison Krauss
  etc

Fourth layer is Album tiltles for each selected artist.

Fifth layer is the album itself from EAC with track numbers, titles, lengths, and album artwork.

I can get to any album or track with 5 clicks of the mouse

I've got my HDs set up as the genres  Keeping them as Jazz, Folk (covers lots of stuff that isn't, well, jazz heh), Rock, Classical then just the albums in their own folder eg. Andre Previn with Joe Pass & Ray Brown - After Hours
I think this is what PeterSt has suggested... one click away (two if you count the hardrive selection).  I don't think it really matters... long as you're patient, but you'll have to click into your artist folder to see the album pictures.  If you keep it one level, you'll click on your HD and see album pics of all your stuff... why I'm pulling all my album folders out of the Artist folders... thank goodness I was redundant with the artist names.
whew... hard to do it right the first time... is there a right though? whatever floats your boat, but I'm trying to take PeterSt advice... most the time. eheh gl

[Chris V]

Thanks Dave

Yes I could save a layer or two, but my aim is to view the folders in each layer as lists, and that (within reason) no list should be longer than a screen full (no scrolling). By having the additional layers this looks achievable.

As you say, there is no prescribed way of doing this . The key obviously is to get it right 'for you', first time

Cheers Chris

[soundcheck]

Hi folks.

My 2 cents:

I think, an intelligent search mask -" google" for audio - filtering cd and/or titles is the way I'd like to run it.

Just some ideas:

I just put in "Clapton" and it shows me all samplers, cd resp. directories, and tracks.
I just select the complete CD or a track. 
I type in "stairway" and it exactly comes up the the right song.
This would also work with your genres if you start searching  further up the tree.
If you'd type Jazz and/or Folk it should show all CDs under these genres.
If you e.g. just look for cd's you should be able to skip .wav files from the search result.

It'll be a bit of a challenge of how to display all of that.

I am using a similar method, just using explorer-"search" when playing DJ on parties.
This is more than convienient and very fast.

Cheers

[Chris V]

Where do you get this search facility of which you speak?

[soundcheck]

Where do you get this search facility of which you speak?

This would be a new feature-proposal in terms of an integrated feature of XX!
I just mentioned it, because I am thinking by myself of how to get all this structured.

Another, much easier,  way of doing it:

Peter could define XX as default audio player for .wav in the registry.
This way you could just by using Windows-Explorer search for the track.
Klick on it and XX starts playing. Or select a number of tracks and XX sorts and plays them all.
How about that?
Peter are you watching?

Cheers

[Gerard]

Hi Soundcheck,

You were  talking about how to define XX as default audio player for .wav in the registry. Can you explain how to do that?

Thank you

Grtz Gerard

[PeterSt]

Well, indeed, as long as you all take your time to find the best way of working for *you*, it's allright. Otoh, it is often about knowing the possibilities (if you don't know them all, you will be sorry lateron).

IMHO one of the most important things is being able to select albums by means of the coverart. Not the individual WAVs (of FLACs , because that really would require some dedicated search function from XX itself. Now ...

If you go like I sugested in the beginning of this topic, you'd have that always. But, then there's no structure. A structure btw, which I opted for some longer ago, but which I find inconvenient now; it just won't show what you all have, once you have a couple of 1000 CDs in there. You'd be more explicitly looking only then, implying that you'll never run a big pile anymore. "Seeing makes hungry" ...

Then ...
For Vista (in XP it works too, but not as nice) in the right upper corner of Explorer, you can search ...
If you type ".jpg" (no quotes), you'd get all the coverart, no matter where it is in the structure. So ... this does NOT require the flat structure as I proposed in the beginning of this post (note that the main folder should be indexed by Vista, and it's not even easy to get that right). There's stuff like sorting properly (because sorting on "folder.jpg" -which it would be doing by default- gives random rubbish), and even adding columns for that ... letting Vista remember your sorting setting and some more nasty stuff ... and lastly the relative disadvantage of not being able to open the folder where the WAVs are in by means of one click (you'd have to do "go to location" -> Alt-B, Alt-S, Enter (Alt continuesly pressed). The main *advantage* of this means of searching (wrong, browsing !) is that the coverart will show normal in Vista (and not max 2 pictures when all is in subfolders and not by means of distorted 3D "maps" anyway).

Pfff ...
The advantage of having all albumtitles flatly organised, is that you can click anywhere in the Explorer area, see the (distorted) pictures, but directly go to the album name you type ...


Anyone dizzy ? I am. ... Too difficult to present this in a structured manner to you, but maybe it brings some ideas and things to try.
As said, we all should be independent of these (rather important !!) decisisons, and there should be an external means organizing it all for you.
Might you be interested in a means that will provide all (including complex queries that can be saved and recalled), look at ThumbsPlus. This is photo organizing software, and the way this works is really how I'd want it (and how I want to make it for XX). ThumbsPlus would even allow to start the player from within a "Thumbnail" after some additional programming which all can be done in there.

[PeterSt]

Hi Soundcheck,

You were  talking about how to define XX as default audio player for .wav in the registry. Can you explain how to do that?

I think currently this is not possible, because XXHighEnd doesn't (on purpose) come with an official install. So Windows wouldn't know about it.
But indeed (I think) I could change the Registry for that ...