World's first NOS 24/384 filterless DAC

[GerardA]

Peter,

What was the intention of you to put an extra OS-output?
I think I missed something (again? )

[PeterSt]

Gerard, this was about the SPDIF input. And this won't go via the NOS1-part anyway (it can with Windows 7 (sorted that out by now, see earlier post), but with even worse sound q to be expected). So, this automatically creates additional outputs, so to say.

Along with the setup comes the possibility for A/D (recording), but it doesn't seem people are interested in that.

All 'n all, all was about the "facilities" being in there anyway, and it only took some soldering (uhm, 3 hours ?) to make the best of it (again, using the available facilities, like the clocks, i2s, decent PSU's).

A nice gadget maybe, but really not worth the trouble and the money.

[GerardA]

Well, if the SPDIF-in goes to seperate outputs then we can just use our existing DACS for that?
The A/D is not happening too then or is this a different story?

How about listening to other inputs like streaming radio/tv?

[PeterSt]

Along with the setup comes the possibility for A/D (recording), but it doesn't seem people are interested in that.

O dear, I am sorry. While it was you asking for it, and my actual motivation to try this "setup" afterall, I received a couple of emails from people (like Pedal's post for that matter) which said not to be interested in A/D. And next I forgot about *your* question regarding this.
Hmm ...

But there's also this :

Ok ... All I can say at this moment, is that with all connected the NOS1 part still runs and measures well.

While true within itself, and while I couldn't hear strangenessess at using the normal NOS1 part (ok, playing the Made in Japan album only), I don't like the noise line I see. It's a bit similar to a volume control being inserted; that also influences the noise line (and s*cks for listening). So, it measures right allright, but not that noise (it shows unexplainable lumps -> unexplainable for something which would be under my control, which this is *not* so much with dozens (!) of additional wireing). So, I don't feel comfortable much, or at least not at this moment, the time lacking to sort this all out and make it "the best" again.

How about listening to other inputs like streaming radio/tv?

Shouldn't be a problem; it can be routed like you are used to, if only the program you use for it can select a sound device (or otherwise you make the NOS1 the default device).

Well, if the SPDIF-in goes to seperate outputs then we can just use our existing DACS for that?

Well ... with the sheer (theoretical) infinite possibilities, *THIS* I never thought about, and I guess it's a superb idea. That is, if you talk about what I intepret from it : SPDIF passthrough. So, this needs an SPDIF *output* on the DAC, and you're done.

This also leads to one thing I didn't mention yesterday, because I couldn't see how to utilize it; now I can :

What I saw from measurement is that at injecting jitter and using the analyser's clock, jitter susception was at -70dB. This is something like 100ps left for jitter. However, using the internal clock(s), this was -90dB or 6ps. Mind you, both measured through SPDIF-In in the first place with the notice this is not explicitly reclocked. Still a process like that will be happening implicitly because the clocks are at the very end of the chain (right in front of the chips). A bit tough to really reason out (for me), because this *is* about SPDIF, that officially containing the clock data, but which will just be overruled (never mind how, but it should as long as measurement figures themselves stay ok, and they do). This will mean that SPDIF output is clocked at that same 6ps of jitter, with no idea what will happen when the data is at the end of the normal digital lines, and is transformed to the actual SPDIF encoded data (that stage for sure adding jitter again). Theoretically this can be measured, but maybe not compared to the earlier results. This is because the earlier results are A/D'd in the analyser, while this doesn't need that because it is digital data to begin with. Also, the results will not be fair because in the case of SPDIF passthrough there isn't any jitter at the input side (not here, in the NOS1 situation). *Now* it will need another fair day of setting up such measurements (with the injected jitter in a playable file), and I better do other things at the moment.

Anyway ... this idea seems so good to me, that I may apply it for free for all those who ordered the DAC at this moment.
And next people may complain that their old DACs sound better than the NOS1, just because of using this feature ... haha.

Hmm ...

[manisandher]

Anyway ... this idea seems so good to me, that I may apply it for free for all those who ordered the DAC at this moment.

Well, if you're giving things away for free, make mine a dual-wire AES3 output...

But seriously, if you do provide spdif I/O, what sort of connectors will you use? BNC would seem the best choice, though not many sources or DACs use it.

Mani.

[pedal]

Hmmm, I am beginning to see a pattern here, and it is alarming.

We have waited for months now, to lay our hands on the NOS1. But no DAC to be seen, only lot’s of words and a poor photo. Not even a proforma invoice. Each week Peter is coming up with new excuses. He has to look at this or that, subcontractors are late, new features to be implemented, he must re-listen again and again. Etc, etc. Bla, bla.

I am afraid Peter has developed the Hi-Fi Manufacturer Motherhood Syndrome, aka HIMMS. It’s a well known mental disease infecting small scale producers who has devoted their life to their product. During the development years, they identify themselves so much with the product that they become unable to part with their puppies. Physical signs of HIMMS are black spots on the skin, beginning as dark rings around the eyes, then spreading all over the body.
 
I have seen this happen before with a local Norwegian amplifier manufacturer in the 90s. He actually refused to sell me his new €10,000 top model. He was afraid I could not offer his invention an environment fitting to its attributes and potential. (In the end I managed to convince him by visiting him at home, and later on we became good friends).

HIMMS is most common among small scale producers, and especially with their first production run. Typically they have a trial serial production of 100 units plus a prototype, totally 101 units.

Peter is unable to part with his 101 puppies, and he sees every customer as Cruella De Vil, who will only abuse the NOS1 in a wrong system and disapprove the sound of real square waves. He even wants to buy it back if you cannot offer it a proper home and caring.

The manufacturing business was intended to be profitable and successful, but after he got struck by HIMMS, unpaid bills are piling up and his wife is crying for a new dishwasher. It’s becoming irrational. Unless the first pieces starts shipping out soon and favorable feedback starts pouring in, I am afraid Peter will forever be lost to HIMMS.
 
Peter, if you don’t send out the pro forma invoice within this week I fear there is something wrong going on in Eperweg 53, and that I will have to pay you a visit. I’ll bring cash and a rucksack.

[PeterSt]

Mani,

Yes, I expected that question ...
The answer is simple : I don't have BNC connectors and there's no time to get them. Also, indeed it would work counter productive for 99% of people not being able to utilize it. On the other hand ... it will be a dead-easy job to replace them yourself (Neutrik fit) ... I promise that I use 75 Ohm coax, haha.

AES3 ? ... if the provided output would have been differential I sure would do that. But it isn't.


Peter

[PeterSt]

Pedal, ...

I will admit this though :

I opened an account especially for this. I should have had it 10 days after asking for it;
Last Tuesday I called the bank concerned (6 or 7 days over-due already) and they told me the account opened "yesterday". So, "could you tell me the account number please ?" -> No. Not allowed. It is in the mail though.
But the mail is on strike, and this lasted until last Friday. Not to think it was in the mailbox last Saturday, because those strikers are so smart to not even pickup the mail before the first day of strike. So, Saturday strike was over, but no single piece of mail in the mailbox.
Today it is Monday. It may happen. But it will be unusual, because on Monday there is never mail in the mailbox. Why is unknown.
I must add to this that yesterday I sent out the first Pro-forma for someone of whom it can be expected the money transfer may take longer, and I used another account number for that situation. Not official, but it will work anyway. May work for you too, if the mailbox remains empty today ...

Then last Thursday one week back we opened a box which should contain a.o. proper internal USB cables. Of course it did not. I had 10 good ones, but the remaining are thus not, and they will hold up right from off tomorrow morning. I called the supplier right away, and he told me to send out those cables Friday one week back. I asked him to "express" the shipment.
Last Friday still nothing there. So I called him again. The answer : "oh yes, I shipped it, but not with Express because I was told all is stuck in the (German in this case) snow anyway". Yes, I guess there is a lot of snow in Germany. Anyway, no cables last Saturday, no cables right now. No cables tomorrow first thing in the morning and it will hold up things ...

About the other part ? I guess it is true. But it can be afforded, because when I do things in between it won't hold up, if I can only include the waiting time for the other stuff (as mentioned), which I can.

More seriously ... I could have sent you the Pro-forma e.g. last Saturday, but then you will be paying too soon. Or "maybe" too soon, and I don't like that. This counts for everybody, but one I think (money transfer expected to be longer for him). But today you *will* receive it, with or without the official account to pay to. Because if not, the payment may hold up things (DAC's meant to ship next Thursday).


Peter

[PeterSt]

Speaking of Devils ... the cables just arrived.

No further excuses !

[pedal]

He-he, I can image there are plenty of hinders of all sorts. I know from my friend (the amplifier manufacturer!) that it takes a “billion” numbers of details and parts to make a complete Hi-Fi piece. Manufacturing is NOT as easy as it may look from the outside.

And, as usual, 99% perfection is not good enough, because the 1% wrong will get all the (negative) attention. So it really has to be 100% perfect.

Be sure to take your time and don’t rush anything unnecessarily fast. Waiting time I will kill having some fun here on ther forum.

BTW: Likely, my NOS1 will be returned to you for multichannel upgrade in order to run my 3-way active system directly. This will happen after you have added XO-functions to the XX software. So, it will be an opportunity to implement also other tweaks or upgrades you may have discovered in 2011. In other words, I am not afraid of missing something with this first batch of DACs, because upgrades will be retrofitable.
 

[Telstar]

My wife tends to talk a lot when I try to listen. Normally I don't even hear her, but instead apply some techniques showing her I do. Not so today.
Today I listened to her.

Oh you have to teach me how to do it, please

[BrianG]

Oh you have to teach me how to do it, please

+1 on that please

... my wife then slips in a "test question", how do you handle that

[PeterSt]

Just to let you know ... The SPDIF Pass-through is working beautifully. I did NOT listen to it, but it just should work (all is locked since 24 hours back). Please don't complain when it turns out not to be that well as I estimate. It's free for this round ...

Peter

[Tore]

Phasure NOS1 DAC have a USB connection.  What is that for?

[PeterSt]

The display ...