World's first NOS 24/384 filterless DAC

[PeterSt]

Haha, yes, but it's not really on purpose.

While I'm here anyway, maybe a small update again :

First of all, the most important lacking parts arrived yesterday after nearly 5 months of waiting.

Next, this afternoon I am going to collect the proto of the cabinet. Honestly, this has been the most "disturbing" part of the whole project. Now I am really excited how it will impress even myself.
When all is in there, I will try to make some vague first photos ... but notice it will be unpainted at this time.


Then there is positive news with a little downside;

I mentioned it in between the lines in some other topic that the capacitors need a longer break-in than I thought at first. This is a downside, because it disallows "fast" judgement for a new DAC. I guess this will take the money-back guarantee to perhaps even 90 days. I can't even tell yet how long the break-in takes !
This is how it goes :

Day one (for me this is a comparison with random other caps) :
Ah, totally different sound. Wow, now you can see the size of cymbals.

Day two :
Sound is a bit worse from day one. More grayish.

Day three :
Wow, yes, this is it !

Day four :
A little improvement over day three.

Day five :
Clearly broken in.

Day 30 or so :
Doesn't it sound better than yesterday ? what did I change ??

Day 31 :
What the heck. Where does this improvement come from ?

Day 32 :
Djeezz, was I deaf lately ?

Currently I am on day 45 or so, and the changes compared to "yesterday" still are on-going with steps that don't seem to decrease. It is a very consistent improving without any fallbacks (Black Gates have fall backs during a crazy period of over 6 months).
If you only know how super-enthusiast I was at day three ... you can imagine I am getting a kind of crazy today.

Peter

[xp9433]

Peter

Can you please confirm again your latest configuration for the Phasure NOS Dac:

Maximum 2 channel or 8 channel output?

If 8 channel output can it be configured to have 2 channel input with 8 channel output (for active crossovers etc.)?

Headphone amp or not?

Frank

[PeterSt]

Hi Frank,

There's the 2 channel input and 2 channel output.

There's a theoreretical 2 channel input and 4 channel output with the normal hardware (but extra output connectors) (via XXHighEnd, the software to be designed yet, and no real use case at hand (unless 2 channel xover))

There's 2 channel input and 8 (or 6) channel output (via XXHighend, the software to be programmed yet).

There will be no headphone output at first, for the stupid reason it needs a 24V PSU (or more) to do it well, and it isn't in there. So, it needs attention which will hold up again, and I don't want that. But Frank, it is very very good that you mention this again, because I forgot to let create a (dummy) headphone output in the prototype of the cabinet and it really should be there for later. So, a sincere thanks for just mentioning it !

Peter

[xp9433]

Peter

There's 2 channel input and 8 (or 6) channel output (via XXHighend, the software to be programmed yet).

Clarification please. I assume this means:
(1) It will need only 1 interconnect per channel between PC and Phasure DAC for this multi-output DAC option?
(2) Owners will not be able to use the 8 channel output option in Phasure DAC unless they use the XXHighEnd player?

I forgot to let create a (dummy) headphone output in the prototype of the cabinet and it really should be there for later.

Does this mean a phasure DAC would have to be returned to you for an headphone out upgrade when this option was available? (Not really feasible from NZ)


Cheers
Frank

[easternlethal]

I'm sorry if I missed this... will the DAC connect via firewire? It would be great if I didn't have to buy a converter or soundcard and just run it straight from the PC (in my limited experience firewire is better than asynchronous USB)

[PeterSt]

No, you didn't miss anything. I just never told it. The connection is proprietary, and you won't need anything. Full blown specs will be available before you order.

[PeterSt]

Peter

There's 2 channel input and 8 (or 6) channel output (via XXHighend, the software to be programmed yet).

Clarification please. I assume this means:
(1) It will need only 1 interconnect per channel between PC and Phasure DAC for this multi-output DAC option?
(2) Owners will not be able to use the 8 channel output option in Phasure DAC unless they use the XXHighEnd player?

Frank,

(1)
Between PC and DAC is one connection which carries all. But I guess it is your own earlier question which confuses a bit. Let me try to explain better (but it is all very obvious !) :

The DAC is connected to the PC. For now and some visualisation, let's say it is proprietary i2s. This one cable can carry 8 cannels of high speed data. One channel could be a normal left speaker, another channel the right.

The more than 2 channels for normal stereo, is explicitly meant for crossovers in loudspeakers.

(2)
Although it may look strange, the DAC is an extension of XXHighEnd, but xx times more powerful in better sound than XXHighEnd ever can cause (without equalizing and stuff of course). So, it is not the other way around.
In order to understand this better, think of the DAC being filterless for a reason : now the software can control it. And that is XXHighEnd with Arc Prediction. Arc Prediction was there earlier than the DAC,  and most use it. But it excels with the DAC because it is made for it.

In normal 2 channel mode the DAC can be used with any software (Foobar etc.).
In "more than 2 channel mode" (set by switches) no other software can control it because it is all proprietary how it's done. Not that it is so much of a secret, but things are being done which are not much normal, and it requires coorporation with the controlling software.

We must not forget the reason of XXHighEnd being there : better sound. Now, the (max) 8 channel hires operation of the DAC is made for xovers, while the xover math always will be done in the PC (nothing strange here). But, like with normal XXHighEnd operation, the processing and inherently degrading (SQ) effect of such a thing - will be covered for by XXHighEnd, and playback will be as good as always. But, now spread over (max) 8 channels, each with their own bandlimit and roll offs.

All 'n all, because it is the explicit idea that XXHighEnd provides the xovering, there also must be a "superb" DAC dealing with it. So, both belong to eachother, although XXHighEnd will be able to send the 8 channels to any DAC able to receive 8 channels (but you will be ending up in Pro ugly sounding stuff (or 4 stereo DACs etc.).

While the normal 2 channel version comes with both RCA and XLR, the 8 channel version must be ordered with either, because there's no space in the cabinet for *and* 8x RCA output *and* 8x XLR output. So you have to choose this in advance (4 channel can still be equipped with both).

To be clear : The 8 channel version can still be used in normal 2 channel mode (switch).


Lastly, and more or less off topic, out of everyone I now know what "less is more" means, and what any out(PCB)board connection does to sound quality. If you'd see my loudspeaker filter/xovers ... I'm not sure what will happen, but SQ must be subject to a vast improvement again, just by leaving out all these resistors, caps and coils + soldering joints. So, I am the most eager to start with this myself !
(and next I'll have a pair of Duelund caps for sale for 500 euro or so. )

Peter

[PeterSt]

I forgot to let create a (dummy) headphone output in the prototype of the cabinet and it really should be there for later.

Does this mean a phasure DAC would have to be returned to you for an headphone out upgrade when this option was available? (Not really feasible from NZ)

No, it will be done differently;

I don't know of any people asking for the heaphone output but you. I think you will have seen it yourself in this topic, because not much response (not a single in fact) was there to this. Also not offline, where people tend to post when things get "tough" (like you did that). For me this means I can't hold up the further process just because of one person. But, obviously it means that you will have to wait, but it will be for your good reason.
Don't be afraid I won't do it, if you only imagine that the 8 channel version has been developed for one person only also, and it really took a very large deal of the development time (still not finished, and he will have to wait some longer too). But, I seriously think there will be quite some people wanting it, if you only know what it can bring for sound quality (see previous post ... I'm fairly sure).
When the headphone output is there, more people will take it, I'm sure. But don't underestimate this feature, because doing it really well is quite costly, and I won't go for less than "really well". Could be in between 350 - 500 euro.

But ...

A better and honest advice from my side would be not to want it at all, which is just because you won't be able to imagine what will be happening in your normal listening room and the sound through loudspeakers. This is such a happening and sheer happyness all over ... you won't be able to perceive this through headphones. I won't say it will be a waste of money to get the headphone output, but it will be a waste of pleasure and time when you listen through headphones. You'll see ... PROMISE !

Peter

[Gerard]

Peter,

What if whe choose for a 2 channel and like to have more later. Can we send it back for an upgrade?? What are your thoughts about that?

 

[Telstar]

Don't be afraid I won't do it, if you only imagine that the 8 channel version has been developed for one person only also

 

and it really took a very large deal of the development time (still not finished, and he will have to wait some longer too). But, I seriously think there will be quite some people wanting it, if you only know what it can bring for sound quality (see previous post ... I'm fairly sure).

I've tried it, not with a SOTA dac, and the improvement is huge especially in the transparency department.
There's no way back to passive XOs for me.

[PeterSt]

Must be you then ! haha

Yes. I once tried to play the mid-high without any filters (which can happen in my case, but then all is unprotected), and the result was air air air. Warm air.

But this was two years ago, and by now this warm air has been superceeded 10 times or so by other means. So I really don't know what can happen to it now. Maybe musicians jump out of the speakers.

[PeterSt]

Very good question, and actually I wanted to tell about just that in the earlier post from today. But I forgot.

Yes, no problem with that, but of course there's the additional shipping costs. Notice that on my side this will be in euros :

Netherlands : 40
Europe : 80
Outside Europe : 110

But this includes some overhead for packing and stuff. On "your side" it won't be much less though, so it's good to mutiply this by 2 for, say, wasted costs.


What will happen is that the PSU for the DAC will be modified, and a second DAC board will go into the cabinet. 6 output stages will be added, meaning that the standard 2 will be replaced by 8 new. One half of the output connectors will be replaced with the type you want (RCA/XLR) and 6 more of the chosen type will be added. The input wireing needs to be changed, as well as the output wireing. Maybe - but this is not sure yet - the receiver board needs to be changed.
Cost ? unknown at this moment (as the cost for the 8 channel is not known at this moment). It seems reasonable though that the additional work compared to do it right away, may set you back for 200-300 euro. Could be less.

Peter

[easternlethal]

one m ore question - will we finally be able to run convolver with the XXhighend - DAC solution? not that I believe that room correction will produce an even better sound, but because sometimes adjustments still need to be made for DIY multi-way speakers or 2.1 setups (correct x-overs!). Will it cost as much time to include the feature?

[PeterSt]

Yes of course, but it has to be made within XXHighEnd.
But is this related to the DAC ?

Maybe you are referring to more channels input ? On that matter ... At the DAC side nothing changes of course (you'd have 8 channels available), but for XXHighEnd it would be something new. Not that it would be a big problem to get one situation running (like 16/48 6.1) but to incorporate it into every possible situation will be quite a lot of work ...

[xp9433]

Peter

The DAC is connected to the PC. For now and some visualisation, let's say it is proprietary i2s. This one cable can carry 8 cannels of high speed data. One channel could be a normal left speaker, another channel the right.

Thats great!

.. while the xover math always will be done in the PC (nothing strange here). But, like with normal XXHighEnd operation, the processing and inherently degrading (SQ) effect of such a thing - will be covered for by XXHighEnd, and playback will be as good as always. But, now spread over (max) 8 channels, each with their own bandlimit and roll offs.

Does this mean you configure with crossover processing done before ARC Prediction? (In other 8 channels DAC the PC/MAC is used to programme the crossover software built into the DAC)
The crossover function is important to me because I want to design and build my own DIY active 2.2 speakers. I know others will want to do things like converting their existing passive speakers into active speakers.

For me this means I can't hold up the further process just because of one person. But, obviously it means that you will have to wait, but it will be for your good reason.
Don't be afraid I won't do it, if you only imagine that the 8 channel version has been developed for one person only also, and it really took a very large deal of the development time (still not finished, and he will have to wait some longer too). But, I seriously think there will be quite some people wanting it, if you only know what it can bring for sound quality (see previous post ... I'm fairly sure).
When the headphone output is there, more people will take it, I'm sure. But don't underestimate this feature, because doing it really well is quite costly, and I won't go for less than "really well". Could be in between 350 - 500 Euro.

Peter, Didn't expect you to have all these things up front, but did want to know that when I purchase the 8 channel version that the headphone option will eventually come.
If I look at where my "ideal" requirements have come from, my original interest was excited by the Benchmark HDR Pre DAC with headphones, then the Metro Halo Lio 8. I will wait for the Phasure 8 channel.
350 - 500 Euro is not out of the way for a good headphone stage.

Frank