From iTunes to XXhighEnd - beginner questions

[Fidelio]

I recently tried XXHighEnd for the first time, after having used iTunes for a long time. First, I must say that the SQ (when I got it to play...) was top notch, much better than any other player I have tried.

I use Vista Ultimate. Hardware is an Onkyo Wavio SE-90PCI soundcard with a 24/192 Wolfson DAC (connected via RCA to the amp), a nForce3 mobo (best ever for SQ) a fast processor and a bucketload of RAM. Stereo is a rather good B&W/Rotel combo.

I had quite a bit of problems with XXHighEnd with numerous different settings. Firstly, I had to set the "DAC is 16/44" to be able to play anything at all. And then it only works with engine 2 and 1, not engine 3. It starts with engine 3, but no music. I also had to set the soundcard to 16/44.

To play a FLAC 24/96 file, I had to set the sound card to 24/96, and the "DAC is" in XXHighEnd to 24/96 as well. But - weirdly - after playing the highres FLAC, I could play 16/44 tracks with the 24/96 setting all of a sudden? Why? If I restart the player, I have to set the soundcard and XXHighEnd to 16/44 (24/44 actually works as well - sometimes).

But, no matter what I do, I can't get Engine #3 working, I either get an error message (unsupported rate or device is busy), or the tracks starts to play without any sound.

One more thing, I don't understand the library function i XX. What is the point of the square browser window on the right? I can browse there, but I cant click anything or play anything from there. I have to press the library button on the upper right an manually browse for the file, adding the to the playlist. Is there no way to browse the library from within XXHighEnd?

Also, volume control in XX does not work, no matter what I try (although I can use Window's of course).

To sum up:

1) Do I have to set the sample rate/word lenght in both my sound card's control panel and in XXHighEnd according to the track played every time?

2) Anyone have a clue why Engine #3 won't work?

3) Is it correct that if I set XX's samplerate/bit to 16/44 and play a 24/96 file, it will downsample the track?

Also - is iTunes capable of using Vista's exclusive mode?

Obviously, the reason I bother with this is the splendid SQ I have heard the few times I have got XX to play. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[PeterSt]

Hi Fidelio,

Because you (obviously ?) jumped right into the middle of "some stage" of XXHighEnd, being today's version, you most probably didn't follow what is going on, hence why you have some of the problems you have. And I know, by now this needs a manual, which actually is in the release notes from bottom to top and which would take ages to read.
I'll try to explain a few of your issues in short :

I had quite a bit of problems with XXHighEnd with numerous different settings. Firstly, I had to set the "DAC is 16/44" to be able to play anything at all. And then it only works with engine 2 and 1, not engine 3. It starts with engine 3, but no music. I also had to set the soundcard to 16/44.

You may not believe it, but this is not related to anything. It is just a bunch of coincidences at all your trials, not recognizing what causes what because there's too much. However, I think and hope I can solve all your problems in one go : choose Engine#3 and slide the volume slider fully up and set your primary device to the soundcard you want to use.
If this doesn't help you, we'll see further, ok ?


Engine#1 and #2 are not exactly obsolete, but what you expect from them might work by accidence. So, Engine#3 supports all the sample rates and bit depths you can imagine (up to 352800/24 or /32), and for #1 and #2 this was just never made, but some combinations might work. The development is in #3, and for that matter you can be glad that you like the sound of #1/#2, because you can't imagine what to wait for with #3. .
All 'n all, nobody here is even ever trying these bitrates for #1/#2, which obviously comes from the(ir) fact that #3 just works, which isn't (wasn't ?) the case with you.
Btw, I don't think that I'll ever let all the samplerates etc. work in #1/#2, which probably for the highest rates isn't even possible.

To play a FLAC 24/96 file, I had to set the sound card to 24/96, and the "DAC is" in XXHighEnd to 24/96 as well. But - weirdly - after playing the highres FLAC, I could play 16/44 tracks with the 24/96 setting all of a sudden? Why? If I restart the player, I have to set the soundcard and XXHighEnd to 16/44 (24/44 actually works as well - sometimes).

Here too, please ignore it.

But, no matter what I do, I can't get Engine #3 working, I either get an error message (unsupported rate or device is busy),

Be careful here, because the "busy" indicates that you are, say, messing around a bit at testing and stuff (which you can't help of course). Important to know is though, that both the checkboxes on the Advanced tab of the Sound Device Properties should be ticked, and when that settings is changed, you *must* reboot (Vista bug). If you then still get "busy" messages, we'll work that out in detail.

One more thing, I don't understand the library function i XX. What is the point of the square browser window on the right? I can browse there, but I cant click anything or play anything from there. I have to press the library button on the upper right an manually browse for the file, adding the to the playlist. Is there no way to browse the library from within XXHighEnd?

I assume you talk about the window in the middle, or let's say the 2nd window (there are 3);
The principle is that there are machanisms to load tracks in the Playlist Area, and there are mechanisms to play tracks in Playlist Area. The latter generally is the Play button.
The first group, loading tracks into the Playlist Area can a.o. be done via the Library Area, and that by itself in a couple of ways (10 or so). One of them is double click the album, another is selecting the album(s !) and press Load, a next is rightclick - show / load tracks and choose.
Don't forget, only with Play music playback starts.

Also, volume control in XX does not work, no matter what I try (although I can use Window's of course).

This only works for Engine#3, and note that *there* you can't use the windows volume anymore.
Note that the volume in XX is not meant for volume control, but for improving sound for two reasons which may not apply to you :
1. You could leave out your pre-amp (and that's why the slider is default set so low);
2. 6 or 12dB attenuation most probably improves sound, but it is up to you to determine this).

3) Is it correct that if I set XX's samplerate/bit to 16/44 and play a 24/96 file, it will downsample the track?

For Engine#3 yes. For the other Engines the result is unknown (please note that when this was created it was taken into account, but was never tested). With Vista you must be extremely careful, because when not working in Exclusive Mode (hence #1, #2, all commonly known players not working with Exclusive Mode) Vista will resample to the setting set at the before mentioned Advanced tab in the device properties).
If you didn't grow into this ... it's all quite confusing, but almost logic once you know ...

Also - is iTunes capable of using Vista's exclusive mode?

No.


If this doesn't get you started, please call again !
Peter

[Fidelio]

Thank you for a very detailed and useful answer:) Nice to have these questions cleared up.

I will try to get Engine #3 to work, but I do have one hesitation - you said I should try sliding the volume slider to the top, and also that Window's volume control won't work with Engine #3. Well, I have my soundcard plugged directly into my poweramps, so this sounds like a good way to blow my speakers to h¤%#......how would I control volume - I mean, is XX's volume control good? If not, I'll have to get a preamp, something I have been trying to avoid.

/Fidelio

[PeterSt]

Nooo !!

(connected via RCA to the amp),

I didn't interpret that as directly connected.

So indeed, that is why the volume is so low by default, and it depends on your gain when you start hearing something. The steps are in 6dB (yes, that rough), so if you slowly move up step by step.
BUT BE CAREFUL ... if you don't have sound for other reasons, and at sometime you find the culprit, the digital volume may be way too high.
But in any occasion : Windows volume does not work (which you wouldn't want for SQ reasons, but that's another matter).

So please be careful.

The digital volume itself works like no other digital volume, and even with 16bit output it can be used with high quality up to -18dB. When your DAC is 24 bits (and tell that to XX) the output will be in 24 bits, and you are good until you can't hear sound anymore.

But first let's try to get any sound from it at all ...
Peter

[Fidelio]

Ok, mucked around a bit and this is the result:

Indeed, if I crank the XX volume slider all the way up, Engine #3 works, but only if I specify 44.1 (@16 or 24 bits, doesn't seem to matter) in the sound card's control panel. If I do this, I can set whatever I want in XX, and it still works (mysteriously, also at rates higher than 192, which my DAC can't do. So somethings weird here).

You also said I couldn't use window's volume control with Engine #3. Well I can here. Does this mean something is wrong?

If I play a 16/44 file, will XX use my DAC to upsample it to 24/192 if I set this in XX's settings even though my sound card control panel is set to 16/44 - using Engine #3?

[PeterSt]

The Sample Rate in the Dac Is settings will never cause to upsample. This is what the checkboxes Double/Quattro do. However, when Dac Is is set to e.g. 44.1 these checkboxes are not available.
Generally you could say that the Dac Is is a kind of self protection. But :

For the bit depth this is another matter; when the bit depth is higher than 16 (and generally you should choose 32, no matter your DAC can do 24 only) it determines the output *when necessary*. Thus, using the volume slider at other than -0dB, would be such a situation.
Now the Dac Is works the other way around : when set to a 16 bits settings, you will force the output to be 16 bits.

There's some more things, which work as "natural" as possible, like the file being 24 bits, but your DAC just can't cope (XX can only know this by your Dac Is setting). Now the output sound will be downrated to 16 bits. Same with the sample rate but only in a special occasion : when the file is 352800 (DXD) and your DAC is 176400 or 192000 (which would be the most normal except for the few the world owning a 35200 capable DAC) downsampling will take place to 176400.

There are some more of these "natural" things, and in the end it comes down to that you should set Dac Is to what it really is, ... unless you e.g. want to compare a 24 bit file with 16 bit output. Note that forcing the other way around, like a 16 bit file outputting in 24 bits, has NO effect. Not when it needs 16 bits only (and which is not the case when you use the digital volume !).

also at rates higher than 192, which my DAC can't do. So somethings weird here).

So, this is normal, because XX can't know what your DAC really is capable of (which is not completely true, see the DAC Test (last option under Dac Is)), but anyway doesn't use any "over" settings as explained above. IOW, try a DXD file (2L.no), and you will see that it won't work, but it does work when the DAC is set to what it really is (and then it downsamples). Might you try this in reality, don't forget to tick the AA (Anti Alias) checkbox for noise free result, and tick the Mem checkbox because otherwise the (larger) tracks won't fit into memory.

You also said I couldn't use window's volume control with Engine #3. Well I can here. Does this mean something is wrong?

It most certainly does. You would be the first one reporting this, *unless* you're using analogue out from the soundcard. Your description (first post) doesn't tell this, or otherwise I wouln't know how you go from the soundcard to the DAC.
Note that if you are using the latest XX version, XX is not able to play in Shared Mode (in earlier versions it was, but this has been eliminated because it could confuse users by it not being clear whether that would be bit perfect or not (and Shared Mode would not be that).
Please tell me that you are using analogue out because otherwise ...
Maybe you can use your mobo's sound for testing, although I'm fairly sure you will encounter other problems (they *never* work in full, opposed to what is needed here). It will allow you to compare and analyse further, when that indeed doesn't allow the Windows volume.

If I play a 16/44 file, will XX use my DAC to upsample it to 24/192 if I set this in XX's settings even though my sound card control panel is set to 16/44 - using Engine #3?

This depends a bit on your soundcard, but listening to you I'd say no (the 16/44 in the soundcard will be "hard" I guess).
Upsample to 24/192 isn't possible anyway, but upsample to 24/176.4 is. Tick the Quattro plus Upsample box for that (and tick AA for comparison, and which officially should be better, which I personally wonder).

[Fidelio]

You can sleep well tonight - I am indeed using analogue out:)

Thank you for mindblowingly good support. It is so nice to see people dedicated and willing to help others out of their ignorance:)

I will continue testing your wonderful app, the sound is exceptionally good (but you guys probably know that already;))

/Fidelio

[PeterSt]

Thank you Fidelio, glad to help out.

If there's anything else ...