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Author Topic: 09-u13 Cracks have vanished...  (Read 14558 times)
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SeVeReD
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« on: April 11, 2008, 05:46:05 am »

... at least so far
09-u13
Q1 14 (although the other night I was moving it around)
no boxes checked... not even ldn
16/44.1
single core
prios @ nothing

Just went back and revisited two albums that exhibited obvious cracks to me
"Miracle Fortress - Five Roses" & "Cornershop - When I was born for the seventh time.."
sounded frickin fabulous... well... I'm still getting used to u13... it's like no other animal I've heard.  To me ...I can kinda see the dynamic relationship to 11 & 12, but they sounded, well, distorted may not be the right word but...to me things were too much on edge,  (not just the cracks)
I think (if I understood you right Peter) that you thought these "crack" sounds that kinda followed the music were actually part of the music and that XXHE was just bringing them out...if that's what you thought, it isn't true... those sounds are gone and they didn't belong part of the music. 09-u13 is so clear, yet nonfatiguing, so live sounding; for rock like standing in front of the stage.  I haven't compared but once with u8,,, I'll go back and forth, or check that box, if you really think that is the same as u8 (I haven't checked ldn box yet...), but u13 is very interesting to say the least.  I know with u8 vs u12 it was almost immediate that I could tell u8 was superior for me... that is not the case with u13... very interesting.
but most important
Those distressing tweeter worrying crack distortions are gone.  Now I can concentrate on SQ again.

edit
Also just checked three albums that alway threw up crack detect errors:
one album still does (zero7 - remixes) but two don't and begin to play (Fridge - The Sun & Radiohead - In Rainbows).  hmmm

and yes, every single album I've mentioned you should go out and buy hehehahha, god I'ma snob
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0.9z-8-3a WAV/CUE files on HDDs via MB FW400>; Win7 pro ttp://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=352.msg4021#msg4021); [XXHighEnd player  Qs 7, 0, 0, 0, 0; eng 4; adaptive; scheme#3; player priority low; thread priority realtime; clock res 5ms: SFS 420 Wink dac is 24/192 w/32bits; Play Unattended; Stop Services ticked; Wallpaper & Show Back ticked - Mirror Image unticked; Start Engine unticked;garbage collect ticked; copy files to XX-drive; *quad arc prediction upsampling*: straight contiguous:>PCI FW800 card>Fireface 800 DAC [latency 2048 samples for 176.4]; usb/ethernet/mb audio shut off @ MB
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2008, 07:19:31 am »

This sounds truly unbelieveable, but I guess I have to ... Actually can't wait to get home and find out that Cornershop album isn't full of vinyl ticks anymore while I changed NOTHING to the code but different memory management.
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XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2008, 07:34:15 am »

I don't know Peter I don't know.. I do know what I now hear, and maybe you never heard the "cracks" that I heard.... there is some deliberate distortion on the album (pops/clicks to imitate vinyl, but that was not what I was hearing).  The harsh cracks (not too loud but following the music and definitely not hidden and waiting to be discovered by better playback), are gone.
Also, the reason I made a point about me playing around with q1 settings yesterday was, didn't someone post about crack changes after q1 setting  changes? just thought playing with the q1 might have changed something... dang if I know, (although it was brief last night and not really a listening session just to see if it would play at -2 and other q1 settings..)  The q1 is back to 14 though (for consistency for now), and no "cracks".   Tonight's the first time I've really had a chance at a good listen... and it's been sounding fun, fun enough not to want to go back and forth with other settings/players tonight... that's a good sign.
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0.9z-8-3a WAV/CUE files on HDDs via MB FW400>; Win7 pro ttp://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=352.msg4021#msg4021); [XXHighEnd player  Qs 7, 0, 0, 0, 0; eng 4; adaptive; scheme#3; player priority low; thread priority realtime; clock res 5ms: SFS 420 Wink dac is 24/192 w/32bits; Play Unattended; Stop Services ticked; Wallpaper & Show Back ticked - Mirror Image unticked; Start Engine unticked;garbage collect ticked; copy files to XX-drive; *quad arc prediction upsampling*: straight contiguous:>PCI FW800 card>Fireface 800 DAC [latency 2048 samples for 176.4]; usb/ethernet/mb audio shut off @ MB
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2008, 09:56:17 am »

Well Dave, not to keep you from your sleep because of perceived brain damage and all, when I wrote the before I was still at home, and I just couldn't wait. So I already listened.

Ok, the family came down wondering whatever was going on because I never play music that early. Happy

I can only say : I can't comprehend;

I took that crazy ticking Cornershop thing (and now I'm stuck with that 2nd track in my head the whole day), of which I knew that the vinly ticking goes along with the beat.

Quote
The harsh cracks (not too loud but following the music

Ah, you just admitted that.
Psychologically we are influenced by the third track, that indeed mimics the vinyl (or whatever it is that it tries to mimic) and which is VERY similar to the other ticking. Only more exaggerated.
Btw, I didn't run from 4 and further, but I would swear there are more of these exaggerating tracks. In fact they all ticked so where is the border of reality.

To make a long story short, the ticking has gone (not in the beginning and other pieces of the third track), and I really don't know what to make of it.
The first thing I should do now, is comparing both player situations for being as bit perfect. Of course I know they both should be as can be, but I want to be sure.
Assuming both are the same, we have the most wild example at our hands on how software can differ to SQ. I mean, man, this isn't normal !!

Please do not forget what I said before about this, which I won't draw back : the transients just *are* in the data, they look completely abnormal to me, I was told that can be so, and from there on we heard them. This was the sequence, so this was the placebo ? Oh no ...

Until I can prove otherwise (and I will be hard working on this the upcoming days) those transients can be squeezed out of the data (before 0.9u-13 latest versions), or they are just skipped (u.9u-13).
It is clear to me - by means of a couple of bold statements from a few who listened 5 minutes and posted that things had changed for the better - that this influences the complete picture. Even I can hear it hehe. But now hear this :

If this really isn't incurred by software error (the being bit perfect of both versions must prove that), then we now have a tool that can tune in between following transients which really shouldn't be followed (before 0,9u-13 versions), and which does that a kind of other way around : rounding those to a pleasureable listen (0.9u-13). The tool is a real tool only when it is under my control (which it is NOT at this moment), but we have the reference.

Apart from the blahblah, I would like to say that for me this morning was a moment to share with some other audiophool (preferrably "you"), because it actually brings up the desire to lit a few cuban cigars (never mind you smoke or not), have some brandy, and infinitly talk about how on earth this is possible. Never mind it's early in the morning, I can pretend it's late at night.
I really really don't know, despite my own outlay earlier towards the opposite, how these ticks can happen to emerge. Remember, this was theory (for me), but now it is practice. Strangely enough now I don't dare to state so firmly what I stated before about this. A kind of scared to be wrong somewhere ...


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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2008, 07:14:00 pm »

It's late over here and I've just spent about 6 hours having a "guitar" evening but wanted to quickly post something before I headed off to  sleeping sleeping

During this listening session I can't recall hearing any clicks, pops, crackles or squeaks that sounded out of place amongst the many albums I listened to, so I can conclude that this version has fixed those anomolies for me. The only changes I've made to my settings has been to raise the 'player priority' from below normal to above normal, and re-establish virtual memory. All other settings are unaltered as per my signature.

I really enjoy the dynamics and clarity this version reveals, and I wanted to fully explore the new abilities, hense my settling in to an evening of guitar works of different genre's.

My foot was a tappin' and my hand was a slappin' throughout the night as I played some of my favourite artists, and finished off with a truly fabulous album with Charlie Byrd, Tal Farlow & Herb Ellis called "Great Guitars of Jazz". Recorded at a live venue in  1974, these three elder statesmen of jazz guitar put on a very memorable and entertaining performance, and I cannot recommend it highly enough. If you see it at your local retailer just grab it .. you won't be disappointed.

Another nice version here Peter, and I've got another couple of aussie dollars waiting to chip in  Grin

Night all,

Russ

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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2008, 04:06:04 am »

I made a mistake in versions.  I thought I had tested u12 with with that Cornershop album... now I'm not sure.  I re-downloaded u12 and played that Cornershop album on the second song (where the "cracks" start to appear) and u12 doesn't show the cracks either...:/ so sorry.  I need to re-load 11, 10,... to see where it stops showing up....It's not possible that playing U13 has influenced U12?? just throwing that out...
I have U8 loaded still (cause I kinda liked the sound on that ver) and the cracks show up on the second song like I've heard using U8... but u12 they don't... like u13 they don't. 

(I still "feel" I like u13 better than u12 for SQ,,, but maybe I should re-evaluate that over my weekend.  I am so sorry to get that wrong about versions.)
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0.9z-8-3a WAV/CUE files on HDDs via MB FW400>; Win7 pro ttp://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=352.msg4021#msg4021); [XXHighEnd player  Qs 7, 0, 0, 0, 0; eng 4; adaptive; scheme#3; player priority low; thread priority realtime; clock res 5ms: SFS 420 Wink dac is 24/192 w/32bits; Play Unattended; Stop Services ticked; Wallpaper & Show Back ticked - Mirror Image unticked; Start Engine unticked;garbage collect ticked; copy files to XX-drive; *quad arc prediction upsampling*: straight contiguous:>PCI FW800 card>Fireface 800 DAC [latency 2048 samples for 176.4]; usb/ethernet/mb audio shut off @ MB
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2008, 04:17:29 am »

Hope I can be clear using Cornershop album as an example (though I've heard these same exact crack sounds on other albums) (also read my new post above first):
First track plays fine on all version of xxhe
2nd track is where "cracks" start to appear.  Using version U8, the hard kkkerrrrrriiiii krrreerrrriii (like a loose connection; almost electrical) sounds appear...kinda follow the snare drum, but not really... they do not sound like vinyl pops/ticks.  These do not show up using U13.  Using U8, once the "cracks" appear on an album they continue for the rest of the album.
When the 3rd track starts for Cornershop, he is sampling either a vinyl record or added in some ambient pops/hiss/clicks; these are present in both u8 and u12/u13.  They are part of the recording and, I believe, intended.  These vinyl noises are not the crack noises i keep talking about.

Well Dave, not to keep you from your sleep because of perceived brain damage and all, when I wrote the before I was still at home, and I just couldn't wait. So I already listened.

Ok, the family came down wondering whatever was going on because I never play music that early. Happy

I can only say : I can't comprehend;

I took that crazy ticking Cornershop thing (and now I'm stuck with that 2nd track in my head the whole day), of which I knew that the vinly ticking goes along with the beat.

Quote
The harsh cracks (not too loud but following the music

Ah, you just admitted that.
Psychologically we are influenced by the third track, that indeed mimics the vinyl (or whatever it is that it tries to mimic) and which is VERY similar to the other ticking. Only more exaggerated.
Btw, I didn't run from 4 and further, but I would swear there are more of these exaggerating tracks. In fact they all ticked so where is the border of reality.

To make a long story short, the ticking has gone (not in the beginning and other pieces of the third track), and I really don't know what to make of it.
The first thing I should do now, is comparing both player situations for being as bit perfect. Of course I know they both should be as can be, but I want to be sure.
Assuming both are the same, we have the most wild example at our hands on how software can differ to SQ. I mean, man, this isn't normal !!

Please do not forget what I said before about this, which I won't draw back : the transients just *are* in the data, they look completely abnormal to me, I was told that can be so, and from there on we heard them. This was the sequence, so this was the placebo ? Oh no ...

Until I can prove otherwise (and I will be hard working on this the upcoming days) those transients can be squeezed out of the data (before 0.9u-13 latest versions), or they are just skipped (u.9u-13).
It is clear to me - by means of a couple of bold statements from a few who listened 5 minutes and posted that things had changed for the better - that this influences the complete picture. Even I can hear it hehe. But now hear this :

If this really isn't incurred by software error (the being bit perfect of both versions must prove that), then we now have a tool that can tune in between following transients which really shouldn't be followed (before 0,9u-13 versions), and which does that a kind of other way around : rounding those to a pleasureable listen (0.9u-13). The tool is a real tool only when it is under my control (which it is NOT at this moment), but we have the reference.

Apart from the blahblah, I would like to say that for me this morning was a moment to share with some other audiophool (preferrably "you"), because it actually brings up the desire to lit a few cuban cigars (never mind you smoke or not), have some brandy, and infinitly talk about how on earth this is possible. Never mind it's early in the morning, I can pretend it's late at night.
I really really don't know, despite my own outlay earlier towards the opposite, how these ticks can happen to emerge. Remember, this was theory (for me), but now it is practice. Strangely enough now I don't dare to state so firmly what I stated before about this. A kind of scared to be wrong somewhere ...



Logged

0.9z-8-3a WAV/CUE files on HDDs via MB FW400>; Win7 pro ttp://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=352.msg4021#msg4021); [XXHighEnd player  Qs 7, 0, 0, 0, 0; eng 4; adaptive; scheme#3; player priority low; thread priority realtime; clock res 5ms: SFS 420 Wink dac is 24/192 w/32bits; Play Unattended; Stop Services ticked; Wallpaper & Show Back ticked - Mirror Image unticked; Start Engine unticked;garbage collect ticked; copy files to XX-drive; *quad arc prediction upsampling*: straight contiguous:>PCI FW800 card>Fireface 800 DAC [latency 2048 samples for 176.4]; usb/ethernet/mb audio shut off @ MB
PeterSt
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2008, 06:35:58 am »

Quote
I thought I had tested u12 with with that Cornershop album...

Ah, so good that you mention this ! That needle in the haystack would not have been found otherwise ... Happy
Also, this gives better peace (so far) ... that memory-thing only could hardly have done this ...


I once more wish to emphasize how important it is that you guys are there. There is NO WAY to do this alone.
Special ...

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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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