Goodby USB, Hello SPDIF

[pedal]

Gentlemen,


http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/9585.htm

I just found this link to an interesting thread about the (initial) shortcomings of USB. I write "initial" because the thread is from 2006, 2 years old. However most so-called USB-DAC's for sale today, still have the limitiations as discussed in by Mr Swensson. Judging from Benchmark's last DAC with custom drivers enabling 24/96, there are still areas where USB can improve. Time will show. Remember though, that of-the-shelf USB DAC's necesary doesnt show all the potentional of PC-audio (and XX, ofcourse!).

(Thanks to LMC for hinting about the thread).

[SeVeReD]

There were several reasons I finally broke away from usb with my Stello, not least of which when I found differences between the 5 usb ports I had available.  In my latest pc build I have all usb shut off at the bios end.  Can't say I've done back and forth comparisons on the new pc, but now I have 96/24 capability through spdif into the Stello, and I'm betting part of the great reason my front end is so superior to before is because of not using usb.  Reading your posts gave me some nudges too.

That all said, Wavelength audio and Empirical audio would say they're doing it like no one else (they can now do 96/24 through usb.... still);
I don't think even they can get away from the fact that different usb cables and different usb ports present better/worse.

[PeterSt]

Pedal, your link isn't working ...

[hubsand]

Then again, on the Benchmark or PS Audio DACs, it's a real to-and-fro comparison between ports: a good coax cable sounds better than a stock USB cable, but to my ears a good USB cable sounds better than both: I've heard enough to be convinced that a cheap USB cable is a significant bottleneck and that many USB implementations are judged unfairly because listeners are not factoring in the cable.

[Fidelio]

I really can't understand why everyone has gone completely gaga after USB DACs when all modern mainboards have S/PDIF out; even an onboard S/PDIF will arsewoop most USB connections SQ-wise when hooked up to a DAC.

Moreover, a sound card with a high quality toslink or coax out is dirt cheap. There is no need for USB DACs at all, and it is starting to look like a hoax of some kind. I particulary enjoy the belief that toslink is OK for Macs, but if you have a PC, you need USB

[Telstar]

I really can't understand why everyone has gone completely gaga after USB DACs when all modern mainboards have S/PDIF out; even an onboard S/PDIF will arsewoop most USB connections SQ-wise when hooked up to a DAC.

Because the quality of that spdif out is awful. It is polluted by all components that resides on the mainboard (including the cpu) and the drivers are usually poor as well.

[GerardA]

And where does the USB come from? From Mars?
I still enjoy my spdif motherboard output very much even if some say it's cr*p...
But I'm willing to try a PCI-e solution if I can find it!

[Fidelio]

I really can't understand why everyone has gone completely gaga after USB DACs when all modern mainboards have S/PDIF out; even an onboard S/PDIF will arsewoop most USB connections SQ-wise when hooked up to a DAC.

Because the quality of that spdif out is awful. It is polluted by all components that resides on the mainboard (including the cpu) and the drivers are usually poor as well.

Is this necessarily so? I vastly prefer toslink out from a modern mainboard than the average USB-connection for hooking up to a DAC. The newer Realtek codecs doesn't meddle with the signal and support all necessary sample rates.

And the toslink out of my Onkyo card is very very good, and the card is rather cheap. There is no reason whatsoever to use USB.

[leifchristensen]

I´m gonna try this:
http://www.m2tech.biz/products.html
might strip it and take I2S out to the Buffalo input
have 2 on incoming
best
Leif

[Gerard]

I´m gonna try this:
http://www.m2tech.biz/products.html
might strip it and take I2S out to the Buffalo input
have 2 on incoming
best
Leif

Hey Leifchristensen,

What is the price of that? 

grtz 

[leifchristensen]

207 euro for 2 incl.freight to norway
these have rca connector
bnc is also available at a slightly higher cost
paid via paypal
best
Leif

[Gerard]

207 euro for 2 incl.freight to norway
these have rca connector
bnc is also available at a slightly higher cost
paid via paypal
best
Leif

 

[Telstar]

Because the quality of that spdif out is awful. It is polluted by all components that resides on the mainboard (including the cpu) and the drivers are usually poor as well.

Is this necessarily so? I vastly prefer toslink out from a modern mainboard than the average USB-connection for hooking up to a DAC. The newer Realtek codecs doesn't meddle with the signal and support all necessary sample rates.

And the toslink out of my Onkyo card is very very good, and the card is rather cheap. There is no reason whatsoever to use USB.

No, the first USB receivers in DACs were also awfully bad And if the mainboard has a good power filtration...
You know, there is never an absolute in computer audio. On paper, we know which are the best solution. But then something may sound different, exceptionally good or bad respect what the theory says.

Toslink vs coax is a matter of isolation vs jitter. Toslink has higher jitter but it is intrinsecally isolated, while coax will require some isolation in the device (dac), which is normally MISSING.
etc etc. I think you get the point.

[earflappin]

Interesting device and pretty cheap as well.  We'll look forward to hearing how well it works for you.  I've tried coax, toslink and AES/EBU into my Berkeley Alpha DAC and the AES/EBU interface was easily superior.  AES/EBU compared to S/PDIF uses a voltage range of 2-7 volts versus S/PDIF's range of 0.5-1 volts.  Clearly, other variables come into play such as what's on either end of the interface.  Good luck with your experiment.  Trying the I2S output is an interesting idea.

[GerardA]

Leif,

I´m gonna try this:
http://www.m2tech.biz/products.html
might strip it and take I2S out to the Buffalo input

Did you try it already with XXHE?

At their website I get the impression it only works with direct sound and kernel streaming.
Not with Wasapi yet. Is this true for you?

Email from m2tech says they are working on a wasapi-like interface for W7 64 bits....