2.10 sound quality

[briefremarks]

So some of the new year celebrations ended up with a big music listening session.  Used Peter's new settings: Q1/xQ1 30/5; SFS 0.69.  Blaxius^2 and Lush^2 with "standard" settings.  SPECTACULAR!  Even more so as the SPL went up as the evening progressed.

Happy New Year again to everyone.  Wishing health, happiness, success, goodness to all on this forum!

[Rmalits]

Hi Peter,

first I repeat, what I have written you in the email yesterday, when I couldn’t enter the forum:

For the second day now I enjoy listening with the new SQ settings you recently suggested. In the beginning I was not sure, if for my setup with the new speakers it isn‘t a bit too much of the good: basses strong, accurate and punchy... The more I listen the more I love it this way! The highs are much clearer and the soundstage is tremendous!
I also tried slighly different settings for SFS, Q1x and Nervous Rate, but didn‘t find any better so far.

Yesterday evening I tried once more a slightly different SFS: 0.89  (=0.7 + 0.19). The highs are not as crisp and as sparkling as with 0.69, but the soundstage is still great it sounds a bit softer, more musical... in my setup.

Kind regards
Richard

[PeterSt]

Hi Richard and Ramesh,

Ah, great. OK, so I will see if I can get the software to cooperate to have the lower SFS values with all else the same and nothing breaks.

Great thanks for your feedback.
Peter

[PeterSt]

Btw, with this setting, maybe for the first time I perceive a very genuine punch in the electric bass (for the string pluck).
Now I am confident that about all the people in the world may say that they had this 50 years ago already, but for those with the open baffle Orelo MKII (and Orelino just the same) this is just a tad more special; This is related to the seemingly impossibility to do so because of the lacking back chamber (no counter pressure). Still this appears now very well possible. So something in that area is now so ultimately fast (?) that the air itself provides this counter pressure. At least that is my idea with it.

N.b.: This is indeed relatively easy for a speaker with cabinet, but the enormous difference is the distortion level. Not that people should suddenly worry about this (you are (honestly) just used to it), but those with a speaker with cabinet can maybe envision how difficult it is for an open baffle speaker too imply the same literal punch. Well, as what has been proven with so many other things by now, it can all be controlled by very different means than we ever back could imagine.

Btw, this reminds me of the somewhat more turbulent times that Bert applied a change to the speakers, which I could do in software (always bit perfect). But the other way around just the same. So yes, really many things happened with the cooperation of all of us.

Happy New Year !
Peter

[phantomax]

Hello Peter,

Is it possible that the new settings provoke an inversion in phase? I ask you because after try them I perceived an unpleasant and very thin sound. After press invert phase things seem to have returned to normal. BTW the sound is very promising although more time is needed.
I remember having troubles with Phase Alignment and you suggested at that time I had something inverting phase in my chain but never found where.

Happy New Year!

Maxi

[PeterSt]

Hi there Maxi,

No, nothing changed explicitly with Phase. But, it always has been so that changes in SQ can be dedicated to Phase "perturbations". Do not think about "out of absolute phase" (which would be a 180- degree change) but merely think about changes all over the place and in a fashion which can't be grasped.
This sounds worse than it is, because it always has been so. It is only that it never really has been given a name.

Kind regards,
Peter

[phantomax]

Hi Peter,

the effect with previous settings was hardly noticeable ( I try Invert Phase from time to time. For me is some kind of panic button ) 

Best regards

Maxi

[PeterSt]

the effect with previous settings was hardly noticeable

Maxi, you mean the effect of Inverted Phase was not to noticable ?
If that is indeed what you mean then I will be very interested in tonight's playback session. It would indeed be so that it would be the first time that it really is obvious(ly noticeable).

Thanks !
Peter

[phantomax]

Maxi, you mean the effect of Inverted Phase was not to noticable ?

Peter, in any case much less obvious than with the latest adjustments.

Maxi

[listening]

Hi Peter,

they are excellent settings especially with the DAM and the Quad ESL. I can confirm the punch in the bass region . It's amazing and there is authentic rendering of music. I reactivated my SL6 after many years and I am amazed what monitors of this age can still do. I'm also driving the SL6 with the new settings - with excellent results.

Georg

[PeterSt]

Maxi, you mean the effect of Inverted Phase was not to noticable ?

Peter, in any case much less obvious than with the latest adjustments.

Maxi

Maxi, I tested this and had the impression that the sound got a bit more "brittle" over here. I am not sure though.
So as it looks, the other way around from your experience. And if true indeed, than one of us can have the absolute phase inverted (which easily can be me).

But really, I never had the idea it could be permanently audible for me;
I will be experimenting some more with it. At least it is interesting ...

Kind regards and thank you again,
Peter

[phantomax]

[/quote]
one of us can have the absolute phase inverted (which easily can be me).
[/quote]

When you drive your car into the highway and all the other cars come in front of you chances are that you took the wrong direction.  So I´m afraid that is me.

For the moment I am playing with phase inverted and everything is fine!

Thank you!

Maxi

[PeterSt]

Hi Maxi,

Right from the beginning with XXHighEnd (say within the year) it became obvious that once Q1 (which in the end also is a buffer somewhere) became too low, people observed an inside-out phase behavior. I guess that never changed (although today it would be about going from the higher SFS to a more extreme lower one).

The other day I also encountered such a sensation, and because it is less than a week ago (as far as I can tell now) it could be the same experience (as back than, as yours ?).

Why this happens is beyond me and all, but I suppose it has to be related to a more acurate representation of "the sound", whatever that exactly is. But if I observe the stage to be wider (more extending from the speakers) then in my book this will be about some form of accurace (better pinpointed "waves"). And that in itself could show the inverted phase better.

Point is (to some degree) that a proper absolute phase hardly can exist. This is mightly difficult to explain, but is already related to the response of mechanical and electrical devices in the recording chain, as well as in the playback chain. So if someone hits a drum, what part of the wave do you think is the first one with the highest excursion ? I say : this is random and depends on many things not under any one's control. Of course, the first wave front should be positive (more pressure) because in realtity that was so. But whether this shows in e.g. the digital file ? ... at random. And when this appears to be negative, then bad luck - then it (literally) sucks.

Point of course is that if one person hits a drum and the bass player is supposed to pluck his low E or whatever at the very same time, but should be of equal phase, at least at the attack. But there is already no way that will happen because of the behavior of the two too different instruments.
The same absolute phase in the sustain phase then ? Well, even with e.g. two bass players with the same bass instruments that would be the most difficult. If they are the slightest out of tune then within the second of that sustain they are out of phase.
Etc. etc. etc. and we don't even talk about how the various recording devices are electrically wired (half of them could work in opposite phase and if not half than maybe one, like you have the idea you have it wrong and we all have it right).

So that is my personal idea of the existence of it ...
... Which does not prevent from what you perceive is a generally known thing. If people only did not forget about it. And if what happens does not suit you, well, then you invert the phase ...

Regards,
Peter

[phantomax]

Hi Peter,
it may well be that my tympani are out of phase   

Thank you for your explanation!

Maxi

[BertD]

Me too...

Liking the 0.69 settings a lot too except for that "out of phase" kind of annoying twist like something is missing.

Used Arc Prediction Filtering (16x) for some time now but since I switched to Custom Filtering (High 29510) things returned to normal without losing the advantages of that much tighter bass.

I did also have added more gain to the lower section than I could bare before resulting in more weight and with punch without getting boomy or blown out bass notes.

This means tweaking the crossover range again but I already really like the tonal balance I am hearing now.

Don't mind my signature... its old and outdated for a long time!