MQA decoding issue

[Rmalits]

Hi Peter,

the log file I sent you yesterday is from my music server PC. It's a Microsoft Surface 3 Pro. That's the one which has access to internet and Tidal. My audio PC (Stelath Mach II) has no access.
The cover art of this album is correct. It contains the "MQA 96", as it is shown in the posts above. But the the flac files are created for 48KHz only.
As I read above, other users had similar experiences until they pluged in an appropriate highres DAC into the USB port of their music server PC. I tried that too a few month ago wihout any success.

Kind regards
Richard

[PeterSt]

Hi Richard,

As I read above, other users had similar experiences until they pluged in an appropriate highres DAC into the USB port of their music server PC.

With respect (for those users), or this is BS to begin with, or it is 100% logical that one can only play Hires when an appropriate Hires DAC is used. And this is not related at all to what you see in the left pane for Input and Output sampling rate, unless in settings you told that the DAC (whatever one) only can do 48KHz (input) max (DAC Needs setting).

But the the flac files are created for 48KHz only.

That is not how it works;
There are no FLAC files created as such. They are always the same, disregarding whether they can be decoded or not. Whether they can be decoded depends on whether the decoding trial as such (which is what happens on your Tidal connected PC at observing the track on Tidal itself) succeeds. Your proof of this latter is the "96" little logo. So that succeeds.

the log file I sent you yesterday is from my music server PC.

That's what I was afraid of. But also, that is a good thing to show and prove to yourself, because it means that you obtained a version of the album which a. is MQA encoded and b. was able to decode. This is what I saw in the log file and thus can say : all looking fine. However :

What you seem to combine with that is that it *thus* also is fine on the Audio PC. Well, although for most it is fine on that PC and things fail (if they do) on the Music Server PC), with you it is the other way around. And ... it probably is because you don't think of the situation as such and thus also don't try to solve it from that angle. Also : combine this with you sending a log file and sort of in the same sentence tell that HDCD/MQA decoding is On. On what PC then ??
Simplest example of why it goes wrong on the Audio PC : don't have the XXHighEnd version in there which is even cabable of the decoding. Or, have switched off that HDCD/MQA decoding in there. Or ... whatever is happening on the Audio PC on its own, or should happen there but does not.

I am not saying that it is you explicitly doing something wrong, but thinking correctly about it is quite crucial. So ... maybe this helps you on some right track ?
I hope we can solve this !

Peter

[Rmalits]

Hi Peter,

thx a lot for your detailed explanations!

On both PCs I have got the latest XXHE version installed. That's for sure.

Everything works perfectly for MQA 44 and MQA 48 since I have installed the latest releases. I am happy with the SQ of these MQA albums.
When I look into the ID-tags of these flac files, I can see that the tag ORIGINALSAMPLERATE (44100 or 48000) corresponds with the audio property "sample rate", which is always the same for these wELL working MQA tracks.

When I download a MQA96 album, like the Robert Plant album in the emailed log file, with my audio PC, it is like this:
the tag ORIGINALSAMPLERATE has the value 96000, what seems to be correct. But the sample rate of these flac files is 48KHz only. It should be 96KHz too, as I believe.
I cannot play these files with my audio PC.

kind regards
Richard

[PeterSt]

Hey Richard,

I cannot play these files with my audio PC.

What does this mean ? Please always try to qualify the hapening and envision what I must do with it without that qualification. I say it more often : nothing goes without message, so ... if it would for real I need the explicit remark like "just nothing happens". So what is literally going on in this case ?

When I look into the ID-tags of these flac files, I can see that the tag ORIGINALSAMPLERATE (44100 or 48000) corresponds with the audio property "sample rate", which is always the same for these wELL working MQA tracks.

No, no, triple NO.
Nothings is working well when one of the others does not "work" at all (but see below). You just can't know by this statement alone, which besides, is ILLEGAL. So mind you, it is your own thought idea of how things should work. You never read those for me. Never adhere your own ideas about matters, or you will end up nowhere with it, OK ? Now :

the tag ORIGINALSAMPLERATE has the value 96000, what seems to be correct. But the sample rate of these flac files is 48KHz only. It should be 96KHz too, as I believe.

Why ?? Because I explicitly told you that nothing is decoded in the file you obtained and can observe on your NAS etc., or on your Audio PC for that matter ?
So all you just did is give yourself an argument to so-called "know" that it does not work. You just did this two times :

1. When you see a 44.1 or 48 file you are sure it is OK (but PeterSt tells you that you can not tell by that means);
2. When you see a 96 file (btw, also by your own means) you glance at a 48 number elsewhere, and state it thus does not work.

Both observations are explicitly wrong.

This time I am not going to explain further, but leave it to you to come up with other observations which testify that it does not work. I have seen nothing so far (but I did not read back into the whole topic). So your hint is that you don't have proof so far, while for 100% sure and the most clear, you can see whether it works or not. Never try to listen whether it does. Find all the Release Notes about it. OK ?

And please be aware of the fact that I am not saying at all that it works for you. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. I just can't tell (at all) by your means of expressing about it.

Now let's get it to work ...
Peter

[PeterSt]

Maybe something else for hopefully better understanding :

When I look into the ID-tags of these flac files

And who made these files ?
I can assure you that in the situations I make the files myself there will be no such tag anywhere. So, some stupid softare put that in (in this cace on the Tidal side) and really nothing is using it. It is thus redundant data BUT you found it and use it (against yourself or something, haha).

Peter

[hudesigns]

Hi Peter and all others concerned,

I also have a question regarding direct Tidal MQA playback vs. replay of the resulting digital files in the "streams" subfolder of the same downloaded album.

When I pasted the URL from Tidal of a MQA96 album for instance, and I play it unattended. XXHE takes longer than usual to read all the tracks understandably. Then it played with both input and output sample rate at 96000, MQA96 on cover art, MQA logo showing at lower center area, and my iFi DAC2 indicating 96000 stream. But when I try to play the downloaded files in "streams" subfolder, it plays with input and output sample rate at 48000, MQA96 on cover art, FLAC logo at lower center area and iFi DAC2 showing 48000 stream.

My question is that if it is possible to replay the downloaded files as MQA 96 again? I apologize if it has been addressed in the thread but I read the whole thing and still was not able to arrive at a solution.

[hudesigns]

Please disregard my post above. After spending more time with 2.09 with Tidal MQA, all my issues are non existent. When I drag Streams folder to playlist box, all tracks are played in original MQA form in correct sample rate upto 96000. Not an issue.

But I do have a minor question regarding preparing streams. When I select an album to be prepared, only one of the tracks in album will be prepared. How to prepare the whole album? My current workaround is to play whole album in unattended mode. Once it read all tracks are read by XXHE, they are all prepared even without playing through all tracks in album.

Also is there a way to resume a partially prepared alubum other than deleting everything and starting afresh?

[PeterSt]

Also is there a way to resume a partially prepared alubum other than deleting everything and starting afresh?

Hi,

I assume you want this because of that other issue :

When I select an album to be prepared, only one of the tracks in album will be prepared.

... and when this is solved you won't need to Prepare a remainder, right ? OK :

I actually am not sure what you mean. There is no way to Prepare an album partly only, unless you just play one track of it in Attended Mode. But well, let's say that you may be doing something which is not expected by me. So what I do myself :

- Search for the album in Tidal;
- Prepare it;
- Play it now or later.

There's no way that you will end up with a halfly Prepared album unless something goes wrong during the process. And then still :
When the Prepare stage is interrupted (which is similar to Prepare one track only) then if you'd Prepare it the next time in full, it will Prepare the remainder. Mind you, this is all done in the "TT" structure (see Search button encryption) amd when done, Move that to the Tidal structure (again see Search Button). Thus, it is *not* the intention that you apply this Move when you have Prepared one (or a few) tracks only. I am not sure what would happen, but I am quite sure unexpected things will happen just because I did not make it to behave like that.

I think that there's one means to Prepare an album only partly : Play a track of it while the album was not prepated explicitly. So be sure you understand where that Explicit Prepare sits, look below (Library Area is active there).
You can still do that after you have played on track before explicit Prepare, but don't move to the Tidal structure first.

Let me know if you understand anything of this post because I feel we may not be talking about the same things. This is also related to this :

My current workaround is to play whole album in unattended mode. Once it read all tracks are read by XXHE, they are all prepared even without playing through all tracks in album.

I understand that. But what happens in that case is that you play the tracks subsequently (but in one go) which causes XXHighEnd to subsequently decode them. This wasn't even explicitly made like/for that but I can imagine it works (but maybe things go wrong when you don't play the whole album like this, and the next time it finds an inconsistent situation and causes you to do all over in order to get it right.
So the more I think about it, the more I feel that you do not use the option I show below. And notice that you can do a 100 at the same time, if you want (just select more and then perform the Prepare function).

Lastly do notice that this Preparing is unrelated to the MQA decoding. That always happens in real time; ot per track when paying Attendedly, or for the whole album in parallel when you use Unattended and per as many in parallel as you have processor cores.

I think what you imply by your means of playback (which starts with dragging in the UNPrepared tracks) is that per track the track will be Prepared and MQA Decoded after each other and that again in parallel when done in Unattended Mode.
No, I certainly did not make that, but I can imagine that it works (to some degree).



Regards,
Peter

[hudesigns]

Hi Peter,
You are great. Once you mentioned TT vs Tidal structures, I know immediately where was my problem. I had not been clear at all about the two's functions. I will train myself in using the two structures correctly tonight. Yes I did notice the realtime MQA decoding when some notebook like app runs for each track being decoded. Amazing stuff. Well-recorded MQA tracks are very very good -- boldly and finely silhouetted yet not without subtle soft details in spacious dimentions.
Thanks!

[hudesigns]

Peter,
I just wonder that once a MQA capable DAC is used via USB, will MQA track continue to undergo second stage "unfolding" before it becomes analog signal?

[PeterSt]

ZH,

I just wonder that once a MQA capable DAC is used via USB, will MQA track continue to undergo second stage "unfolding" before it becomes analog signal?

a. When played via XXHighEnd, no filtering is allowed and also volume must be at -0dBFS. Then it will work.

b. It is generally regarded that any second or more unfold is an upsampling step per means of "Meridian" (MQA) filtering.

Ad b.
If you like that filtering (which is told to adapt to your DAC), then OK. But if you don't like it - for example because you like Arc Prediction better - then your MQA DAC is a waste.
Chances are small that you coincidentally like the MQA upsampling/filtering but theoretically these chances are as small as you like XXHighEnd's upsampling/filtering.
Both are very different though. The money involved could be a bit different. Haha.
And I try to make the best of it (but I may not be alone on that one).

Kind regards,
Peter

PS: Ask as much as you like.

[hudesigns]

Very goog information. Haha, -0dBFS! Will do.
Most thankfully,
ZH

[hudesigns]

I am also weary of upsampling in general. It's ultra smoothness sometimes reminds of "photoshopping", just a bit too uniformed. I like materials with some grit. ZH

[PeterSt]

When I look into the ID-tags of these flac files, I can see that the tag ORIGINALSAMPLERATE (44100 or 48000) corresponds with the audio property "sample rate", which is always the same for these wELL working MQA tracks.

When I download a MQA96 album, like the Robert Plant album in the emailed log file, with my audio PC, it is like this:
the tag ORIGINALSAMPLERATE has the value 96000, what seems to be correct. But the sample rate of these flac files is 48KHz only. It should be 96KHz too, as I believe.

So Richard, ...

You never read those for me. Never adhere your own ideas about matters, or you will end up nowhere with it, OK ?

Apart from the "for me" which should read "from me" (apologies for this confusing line of text because of that), I tried to help you by means of now explicitly making what you thought could be observed in the first place.

So what actually happened is that you gave me the very good idea that no decoder is required to observe the Native (in-MQA) Sampling Rate, which finally avoids all the hassle about the Music Server PC seeing something different from the Audio PC just because on either of both the decoding does not work. So from of 2.10 it will be like this :

- The Hires Audio logo will emerge based on what the ORIGINALSAPLERATE tag in the FLAC file tells us (thus exactly how you looked yourself);

- The actual MQA Decoding will take place during Playback.

Let's try to keep in mind that the MQA Decoding during Playback is depending on two major data parts :
1. The HiRes Audio logo must be present on the Coverart (when no Coverart is present or (made) visible it's an internal thing, but this is rare anyway);
2. The PC where the Playback happens must be able to Decode MQA (and for some PC's this can be a pain and virtually unsolvable unless Windows is freshly installed (not upgraded !)).

Although not easy to see, the change is major. Why and how ?
Well, because the initial enumeration of the MQA albums is not depending on the MQA Decoding any more (it was in 2.09) only one thing can fail from of 2.10 : the decoding suring Playback. This means that we van be 100% guaranteed that if Playback fails to decode MQA, it is the Playback PC not being able to Decode MQA and nothing else.

How to check this unambiguously ? Most easy description (leaving out more possibilities) :
-> Find an album with HiRes Audio logo of 96, take care that your DAC can take 24/96 for input at least, play the file and observe that after decoding - hence when playback commences for real - the input to output in XXHighEnd shows 96000 - 96000 with the little fx button (sits in between inut and output bit rate) activated and the sampling rate slider (sits in between input and output sampling rate) at 2x.

Additionally I could say that each track which has been played once (briefly) or each album which has been Prepared explicitly, will from then on show the input and output as should even without playback. But better don't pay too much attention to this because it may confuse only.

What *is* important further, is that when you have proven that the 96 decodes, any 88.2 or 48 or 192 (native output is 96 max for real anyway) or whatever, will decode too.
It will NEVER happen that a 44.1 or 48 decodes, while 96 etc. does not (which could be your easy mistake to make).

Btw, I'd say that in all cases the MQA logo at the bottom (above the [ G ] button) will testify of MQA decoding. No MQA decoding means that the MQA logo (including green or blue indicator) will not show.

After some consensus (or earlier ) I will try to put this in a Tutorial (in the Tutorials section) as well.

Best regards,
Peter

[hudesigns]

Hi Peter,

Loving MQA playback! I am using 2.09 and all MQA functions seem to be working as designed. The downloaded MQA48 album gets a MQA48 logo on cover art and plays as 48-->48. And likewise MQA96, gets MQA96 logo and plays as 96-->96; MQA192, MQA192 logo, plays as 96-->96. everything is beautiful.

My question is that under the proposed 2.10, are we going see MQA192 logos for MQA192 albums anymore, which is important to me? Because when I playback a MQA192 album, I sometimes use 96-->192 to feed to the DAC and thought I liked the result which is slightly closer to neutral and less edgy. I know it's upsampling but with certain MQA192 albums, it sounds better to my ear.