09.U-0a setup with external USB DAC

[pedal]

Hi Terje,

Again thank you for your input. Also, a (late) warm welcome here !

Terje is a seasoned high-end'er with very good system and listening experience. I hope he can contribute more here on the forum. Peter needs all the feedback he can get. XXHighEnd can be considered as a joint venture between him and all the native users. Remember we are still in "Beta-mode".

Also, what he told me, but forgot to tell you, was the following: His 24/96 file (downloaded free Mozart 2L.no sample, same as mine) plays perfectly in Foobar, but exactly the same track from the original CD (in 16/44 ofcourse) sounds better through XXHighEnd! 

In other words, XXHighEnd has ALLREADY reached 24/96 performance (relatively speaking) from playing 16/44. So thumbs up to you Peter! 

Keep up the good work Peter. I am sure you will solve the 24/96 related bugs in the near future. In the meantime we all are enjoying XX 16/44 quality second to none!

pedal

[PeterSt]

Haha, thank you pedal. Nice too hear !

Right now I'm working on some "analysis" function that can summ up the possibilities of the Sound Device. I think it's almost done. Putting it up is another matter because I was also in the middle of 44.1/16 -> 24/88.2 upsampling. It's not that much work anymore, but maybe not tonight.

[PeterSt]

Ok, this is to get warmed up a bit ...

For the official reporting of Exclusive Mode what's possible, below you can see in the first attachment that HD-Audio is capable of ... well ... almost nothing. But *also* you can see that a 96/24 file must be possible to play when upsampled to 192000 with the DAC set to "Needs 24." Ok, XX can't upsample to 192000 yet. So dead end here.

The second attachment shows the FireFace800. It can do everything ...
Yea ? NO ! because it can't accept 24 bits. This is a "needs 32" device.

Then it's more complicated, because behind the Fireface is the TwinDAC+ and I can't see through the FireFace. So now I just have to know that this DAC is 96/18 max, and it needs 32 bits for it. Or anyway the Fireface arranges for that.

The third is USB Audio with the TwinDAC+ connected. Officially the TwinDAC+ can (USB connected) do what is says there. But, this is probably (already) because it's squeezed by the USB Audio driver.

Well,

[SeVeReD]

Hey Guys!!!!
What's going on here.
I have a Stello 100 USB-DAC (probably one of the first - non-signature model).  I've enjoyed the Stello quite a bit and with XXhighend is the best front-end I've had in my system (I'm coming from a Sony SCD-1 that I felt didn't need any mods, just a solid acrylic platform... excellent unit that wasn't matched until XXhighend .9D).  Sooo, do I have a chance at higher rez with this unit?  So far all my clicking around...243296.... have produced nothing but errors with 16/44.1 wavs... so I assumed I was SOL for higher rez or doubling/upsampling... I have to have 16/44.1 selected under XXHE settings tab to hear music... which sounds pretty good at the moment....(I've kinda gone back to Vol at 0 and using the xover volumes.... I haven't experimented enough with dig vol & xover volumes ratios to see if I can get a better sound.

[SeVeReD]

This report makes SeVeReD a little sad :/

Start Audio Device Analysis Exclusive Mode support
040FFD38

    Supported : 2|16|44100|176400|4
Not supported : 2|24|44100|264600|6
Not supported : 2|32|44100|352800|8
    Supported : 2|16|48000|192000|4
Not supported : 2|24|48000|288000|6
Not supported : 2|32|48000|384000|8
Not supported : 2|16|88200|352800|4
Not supported : 2|24|88200|529200|6
Not supported : 2|32|88200|705600|8
Not supported : 2|16|96000|384000|4
Not supported : 2|24|96000|576000|6
Not supported : 2|32|96000|768000|8
Not supported : 2|16|176400|705600|4
Not supported : 2|24|176400|1058400|6
Not supported : 2|32|176400|1411200|8
Not supported : 2|16|192000|768000|4
Not supported : 2|24|192000|1152000|6
Not supported : 2|32|192000|1536000|8

[Gerard]

 

[PeterSt]

This report makes SeVeReD a little sad :/

Contact your dealer ?


This again is about what is to be expected from the USB DAC Audio device ... I vote for that this is just correct ...
Please keep in mind ... my TwinDAC+ reports exacly the same USB connected. It's in the specs as well. Still, SPDIF connected it's 96/18 and it really does that (to spec again).

[PeterSt]

Quote from edward:

I looked on the April Music website and no where does it imply that you can play hi-rez files. The CD player only plays CDs (not SACD). Right? The only thing they are touting about hi-rez is that their player/DAC upsamples everything to 24/96 or 192. That does not mean it can natively accept those formats. Dave (SeVeReD) has the Stello DA100 that uses the PCM2704 (USB input receiver chip) and I suspect yours is probably the same or similar. That is limited to 16/48.

All April Music D/A´s and Eximus CD10 can play 24/96 through the usb input.
This is Stello DA100, DA100Signature, DA220MK2 and Eximus CD10.
I am actually playing 24/96 with Foobar and a DA100S at this moment, but xxhighend does not work with 24/96.

I think the reason for your misunderstanding regarding this is that the usb receiverchip used in these units also contains a lowquality built in 16 bit dac.
This built in dac is not in use in any of these units.
The signal from the usb receiver is led directly to highend dac´s from AKM or  Burr Brown (CD10), and all the units can therefor play hi-rez.

Hi Terje,

On behalf of customers and users here, could you please re-check ...
Apart from (I think) only the specs of the CD10 mention explicitly 24 bit input being possible, it is my hunch that any device allowing for that would need a special USB driver for it. So, not the USB DAC Audio device.
Could that be true ? if yes, where can it be obtained ?

Also, by now can you please try the DAC Test facility from 0.9u-1 ?
If another player can do it, I be happy to try to get it to work. But as long as theories (and a little practice ) say otherwise it's kind of difficult for me.

Thank you very much,
Peter

[Calibrator]

Hi Peter,

not sure where to place this info, but this thread looked as good as any.

Primarily a FYI posting, but might but helpful for others trying to decide what make/model soundcard to buy in they are in that situation.

Here's the results from the analysis log of the ESI Juli@ card

--------------------------------------------------------
Start Audio Device Analysis Exclusive Mode support
044AFD38

    Supported : 2|16|44100|176400|4
    Supported : 2|24|44100|264600|6
    Supported : 2|32|44100|352800|8
    Supported : 2|16|48000|192000|4
    Supported : 2|24|48000|288000|6
    Supported : 2|32|48000|384000|8
    Supported : 2|16|88200|352800|4
    Supported : 2|24|88200|529200|6
    Supported : 2|32|88200|705600|8
    Supported : 2|16|96000|384000|4
    Supported : 2|24|96000|576000|6
    Supported : 2|32|96000|768000|8
    Supported : 2|16|176400|705600|4
    Supported : 2|24|176400|1058400|6
    Supported : 2|32|176400|1411200|8
    Supported : 2|16|192000|768000|4
    Supported : 2|24|192000|1152000|6
    Supported : 2|32|192000|1536000|8
--------------------------------------------------------


Cheers,

Russ

[PeterSt]

But Russ ... You are not going to tell me that you can get the 24 bit possibilities actually to work ? or ??

Assumed not, this now leads me to the thought that this analysis thingy must dive deeper. Kind of right to the end and playing. If *that* works, then it would be actually true. One exception : crackles. But I can't believe it will come that far.

I will change the analysis accordingly.

[Calibrator]

But Russ ... You are not going to tell me that you can get the 24 bit possibilities actually to work ? or ??

Hi Peter ...

It all seems to be working as expected 

The control panel for the Juli@ card has indicator buttons that change green to indicate the sample rate being played. As the DAC test analysis is running, those buttons are initially lit at 44.1 then progress thru 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 and finally 192.

Using XXHE's volume control seems to be doing its thing also. If the Vol is set at 0dB, the Sony processor I use indicates 16bit @ 44.1KHz on its display. When I drop the volume to -6dB, the Sony then reads 17bits @ 44.1KHz. At vol = -12dB the Sony reads 18bits @ 44.1KHz, and so on , until, at -48dB, the Sony reads 24bits @ 44.1KHz.

Playing back 24bit/96KHz WAV's has the Sony indicating 24bits @ 96KHz so that part is working as expected also.

Seems like the Juli@ is a versatile card

Cheers,

Russ

[Gerard]

But Russ ... You are not going to tell me that you can get the 24 bit possibilities actually to work ? or ??

Hi Peter ...

It all seems to be working as expected 

The control panel for the Juli@ card has indicator buttons that change green to indicate the sample rate being played. As the DAC test analysis is running, those buttons are initially lit at 44.1 then progress thru 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 and finally 192.

Using XXHE's volume control seems to be doing its thing also. If the Vol is set at 0dB, the Sony processor I use indicates 16bit @ 44.1KHz on its display. When I drop the volume to -6dB, the Sony then reads 17bits @ 44.1KHz. At vol = -12dB the Sony reads 18bits @ 44.1KHz, and so on , until, at -48dB, the Sony reads 24bits @ 44.1KHz.

Playing back 24bit/96KHz WAV's has the Sony indicating 24bits @ 96KHz so that part is working as expected also.

Seems like the Juli@ is a versatile card

Cheers,

Russ

Peter,

This i do not understand. I thought the higher near 0db things where getting better.... Or does that not have anything to do with the bit thing?

[PeterSt]

I'm not sure what technique Russ uses to determine all is right, but I think I get the grasp of it.
His highly intelligent processor presumeably shows which bits are actually USED. So, with a 44./16 file playing (which Russ doesn't mention, but I hope he is doing that) and the volume at -0dB, indeed only 16 bits are used. There aren't anymore in the data AT THAT MOMENT.
When 6dB is attenuated, what happens is that the 16 available bits are are shifted one bit, and it goes into the available headroom of the more than 16 bit capable DAC. So, now 17 bits are being used. Note that actually this is not true, because the Most Significant Bit is out of use now. So it's still 16 bits.

Hey smart*ss downunder ! did you find this out yourself, did you just know it, or did it take a couple of days reading the Sony manual ?!?
I must say, I'm really surprised ... Hats off !


And Russ, my "24 bit" question was about my suggestion that you could not use the "DAC needs 24 bits" setting (so, 32 only). Am I right ? or can the Jui@ take both 24 and 32 bits ?

Thank you !
Peter

[Calibrator]

I'm not sure what technique Russ uses to determine all is right, but I think I get the grasp of it.
His highly intelligent processor presumeably shows which bits are actually USED. So, with a 44./16 file playing (which Russ doesn't mention, but I hope he is doing that) and the volume at -0dB, indeed only 16 bits are used. There aren't anymore in the data AT THAT MOMENT.
When 6dB is attenuated, what happens is that the 16 available bits are are shifted one bit, and it goes into the available headroom of the more than 16 bit capable DAC. So, now 17 bits are being used. Note that actually this is not true, because the Most Significant Bit is out of use now. So it's still 16 bits.

Hey smart*ss downunder ! did you find this out yourself, did you just know it, or did it take a couple of days reading the Sony manual ?!?
I must say, I'm really surprised ... Hats off !


And Russ, my "24 bit" question was about my suggestion that you could not use the "DAC needs 24 bits" setting (so, 32 only). Am I right ? or can the Jui@ take both 24 and 32 bits ?

Thank you !
Peter

LOL ... no reading of manuals down here mate. That's only needed when things get real desperate and as a last resort 

The Sony's display has a 'scroll' function that can be manually activated ( via one of its knobs ) that will show you the characteristic of the audio file being processed, amongst which is the bit rate and sample freq. I often use that feature to double check that things are working as intended when using different playback programs. I noticed a few days ago that when I had set XXHE's Vol at anything less that 0dB, that the bit rate figured increased accordingly until it got to 24bits.

And yes, I was testing the DAC analysis with a 16/44.1 WAV file. And yes again, it needs the 'DAC needs 32 bits' setting to work also. It's a no go if I try and set to 24 bits .... XXHE resets back to 32bits in that setting.

Cheers and beers,

Russ

[PeterSt]

Thanks Russ.

XXHE resets back to 32bits in that setting.

"Resets back" ?