The Lush

[hols]

Hi Peter,

Can I have a 150cm Lush. Thanks.

And when you have time I would like to have a Stealth Mach II with linear power supply too. But right now enjoy your trip. Thanks.

Leung

[PeterSt]

This is my Saturday morning post after waking up and not something heavy. Keep this in mind ...

All that effort for selling a Lush

  - so Lush is the latest greatest thing from the house of Phasure  -  So tell me what salesman would turn up without a Lush in his hand - Soon after Mani's visit Peter, Ciska and Paul turned up at my place with similarly short notice and did not have a Lush with him for either me or Mani.

Paul

Dear People,

It takes just a tad too much of effort to understand the intentions of Paul's post here. I noticed it myself, but I was also pointed to it from (private) messages from others.
It is all about the humor we (all) put into it and how to understand it. So for those who think something is inappropriate here, this is the explanation :

First there is Gerard who jokes about that it is really a lot of effort to travel some 1500Km to sell a Lush cable (he did not know we did not bring along any). But Gerard is Dutch and knows exactly how that comes across. Of course we must envision the intonation how he says it, which does not work well in writing.

Next there's me myself who really should have brought a cable for both, *if* I had known in advance I would cross the roads Mani's and Paul's house were positioned. And although I may have thought about it, it was no fixed plan. It was even a "secret" for the other travellers, of which one only knew when entering the town, and the other only when we stopped at the front gate. The gate was Mani's and it was me who thought to be a fool to not bring a cable, BUT with good feelings, because Mani did not order a Lush anyway.
With Paul it went exactly the same (also a surpise for everybody), up to him not ordering a Lush (when we started our little trip). This felt even worse because we left off with one 70cm left behind for someone who had not payed yet, and Paul wanted a 70cm (as it appeared). How hard would it have been to (gently) throw that in the trunk. If I only would have had some more senses as a salesman ...

Lastly, Paul makes his remark about this latter. "Nice salesman you are !"
Paul is, of course, a bit sore because a. he ordered too late, b. he could have listened to it in his all new situation. Ehm, so yes, there too a few things changed because we passed by.
And aren't we audiophiles completely obsessed ?
Anyway, Paul expressed his grief about someone mentioning me as a salesman who messed up all over. Now we have the nice forcefield between Gerard's post and Paul's. And indeed; not everybody understands the burried message in at least Paul's : what salesman; if that would be the case he would have bring a 100.
And remember, Paul only ordered one after we left ... he knows that.


The nice thing of such a trip is that it may help those we visited. So let's say that it helped Mani to re-focus on something a neutral instance (us, but with 3 of us !) have a fresh look at matters. That something more drastical like replacing an amplifier is the solution, well, if it is a solution, why not. Btw Mani, it was my gentle suggestion to try the BD amp after contemplating that the tube amp may not have sufficient control (the throughout a track diminishing bass). Now, I don't want to emphasize this, but life is apparently so complicated that if Paul would have mentioned what happened in his room while we were there, nobody would have doubted the gag of Paul's post. Next up is that it may be a bit difficult to mention what happened because now someone else will be or feel blamed for something. So Paul better did not and now the jokes come through only halfly.

Let me finish with this :
It is such a great honour that people like you almost explicitly want me to check out their system and try to change it for the better. You know (and you both noticed) I actually don't even want to do that because I (like to) respect what any of you achieved. I don't want to be the better one (or how to express it). That it works out so, well, massively, is something I can live on for months. I call it luck though. I mean, to hear something wrong is not so difficult as this is just experience (with say a good reference). But that it can be solved within the time available is ... luck.
OK, I can be booked.

Peter

PS: Both of you know that I explicitly stayed out of initial judgement. So the joy for me is that Ciska and Paul can do it too, by now.

[PeterSt]

Hi Peter,

Can I have a 150cm Lush. Thanks.

And when you have time I would like to have a Stealth Mach II with linear power supply too. But right now enjoy your trip. Thanks.

Leung

Thank you Leung. I take it that it is your suggestion to send out the Lush the soonest and separately from the Stealth, because the Stealth will take some longer time to produce - think in terms of a few weeks (may be 3-4).

Regards,
Peter

[acg]

But it really is a tall ask expecting their 5W or so per channel to drive full range speakers (albeit high-efficiency horns) with passive crossovers and no powered LF drivers. I suspect this is simply too much for them.

Hi Mani,

For some reason I thought you had 211's in your amps which would equate to 15w to 20w single ended...not sure where I got that idea from, but they are certainly not 5w tubes.  Judging by the descriptions of what was going on I think that what you were hearing might have been the effect of back emf from the voice coils of the woofer/s finding its way to the tweeter.  As you have already mentioned a good solution may be to offload the lower channels to another amplifier and use your valve amps for the mids and highs (the channels with little moving mass).

I'm glad you have managed to improve things further.

Cheers,

Anthony

[acg]

Dear People,

It takes just a tad too much of effort to understand the intentions of Paul's post here. I noticed it myself, but I was also pointed to it from (private) messages from others.

The written word and cultural differences are not always the most conducive to accurate communication

I just laughed at Paul and Gerard's posts...funny...but thanks for the explanation anyway Peter.  Sounds like your English holiday did not have much of an itinerary which usually makes for a relaxing get-away.

[PeterSt]

Anthony,

Hi Mani,

For some reason I thought you had 211's in your amps which would equate to 15w to 20w single ended...not sure where I got that idea from, but they are certainly not 5w tubes.  Judging by the descriptions of what was going on I think that what you were hearing might have been the effect of back emf from the voice coils of the woofer/s finding its way to the tweeter.

5W or 15W, I don't think it matters (because 15W already may not be enough). Point here is that you may suffer from the same without knowing = noticing. This is the fun of audio ...

This post originally was much longer, but although with some sense, too much deviating from any subject.

Peter

[Scroobius]

Lastly, Paul makes his remark about this latter. "Nice salesman you are !"  Paul is, of course, a bit sore because a. he ordered too late, ........................... And remember, Paul only ordered one after we left ... he knows that.

!!!! Oh Dear !!!!! I had not meant to create confusion.  Just to say that it was great to see Ciska, Peter and Paul and we had a great afternoon. I am looking forward to receiving a Lush which is somewhere between here and Holland just now.

Cheers

Paul

[manisandher]

For some reason I thought you had 211's in your amps...

Yep, I was using 211 amps before my 300B amps arrived a couple of months ago. I still have both pairs of power amps - will decide what to do with them at some point.

Judging by the descriptions of what was going on I think that what you were hearing might have been the effect of back emf from the voice coils of the woofer/s finding its way to the tweeter.  As you have already mentioned a good solution may be to offload the lower channels to another amplifier and use your valve amps for the mids and highs (the channels with little moving mass).

I'm starting to come around to believing that DSETs may be the only really satisfactory way of using SET amps.

5W or 15W, I don't think it matters (because 15W already may not be enough).

I'm reminded of VJ's post in another thread a while ago:

Also look into this if not already done so!

http://www.crownaudio.com/en/tools/calculators

"Amplifier Power Required"

http://www.crownaudio.com/how-much-amplifier-power

"Peak headroom

Because music has transient peaks that are 6 to 25 dB above the average level, the power amplifier needs to produce enough power to handle those peaks without distortion.

For example, if you need 100 watts continuous power to achieve the desired average SPL, you need 1,000 watts continuous to handle 10 dB peaks, 3,162 watts to handle 15 dB peaks, and 10,000 watts to handle 20 dB peaks. Clearly, the peaks require far more power than the average levels. In the calculator's Peak Headroom field, enter 6 dB for rock music that is compressed or limited, or enter 20 to 25 dB for uncompressed live music. If you can live with some short-term clipping which may be inaudible, enter 10 to 15 dB.
 

This post originally was much longer, but although with some sense, too much deviating from any subject.

Shame. I quite like your long, 'deviating' posts 

Mani.

[acg]

I'm starting to come around to believing that DSETs may be the only really satisfactory way of using SET amps.

This post originally was much longer, but although with some sense, too much deviating from any subject.

Shame. I quite like your long, 'deviating' posts 

Mani.

Maybe start a thread to discuss this stuff Mani.  Peter and Bert already use many of the theoretical advantages of matched amplifier/driver channels in the Orelo speakers.  DSET is not just for problematic topologies such a as SET, but for less problematic SS devices as well.

[acg]

I think my The Lush is settling in a little more now that I have had it for a week or so.  Very, very nice...

[manisandher]

Congratulations on the  fantastic sound I can imagine you have now and waiting to see the effect of the Lush on your system.

Hey Juan, yes, I think the sound is pretty good... but still not quite 'there'. If I adjust the speakers so that voices sound palpable and real, the LF (below 60Hz, say) seems slightly lacking. If I adjust them so that this LF is more pronounced, the mid-lows/upper-bass seem too prominent - vocals become unrealistically husky. I'll probably revert back to the first scenario when the Lush arrives and see (hear) how I go.

This issue seemed less pronounced with my tube amps - they seemed to flesh the LF out somewhat. [I might take up Anthony's suggestion and start a new thread about the sound of different amps.]

Mani.

[hols]

Thank you Leung. I take it that it is your suggestion to send out the Lush the soonest and separately from the Stealth, because the Stealth will take some longer time to produce - think in terms of a few weeks (may be 3-4).

Regards,
Peter
[/quote]
Hi Peter,
It's good if you can send out the Lush first. It is also ok if you would like to combine it with the Mach II. Thanks.

Leung

[Scroobius]

Lush has arrived here and all I have to say is:

WOW !!!!

It is like all digital "stuff" has been removed from my system and replaced with analogue.

Cheers

Paul

[Stanray]

Lush has arrived here and all I have to say is:

WOW !!!!

It is like all digital "stuff" has been removed from my system and replaced with analogue.

Same over here!

My first impression was that the sound became "richer", without getting too warm and maintaining or even expanding detail.

This is with a non-G3 NOS1a (waiting for my turn) and no Intona.

Going back to the Clairixa made the sound "thin" and less involving.

Peter: 

Regards,
Stanley

[Scroobius]

and maintaining or even expanding detail

Same experience here I was explaining this to a friend last normally when the sound is a bit edgy (as clarixa now sounds) then removing that edge tends to make the sound less detailed. That does not happen with Lush you hear even more detail but really smooth and natural. Better termination / matching?

Also my system has sounded a bit lacking in low bass since Peter visited and got to work fixing a fundamental problem I was unaware I had (not something I need to be embarrassed about I quickly add). Now the bass is definitely improved as well.

Cheers

Paul