NOS1a and HQPlayer on Win 10

[PeterSt]

With "one wire" 384 (max), Sw#5 (the one the fartest away from you) must be Up. In NOS Driver Control Panel select Stereo Reduced.

With "dual wire" (705.6/768) Sw#5 must be Down. In NOS Driver Control Panel select Multichannel 4.0.

That should be it on the non-HQP side of things.

Peter

[jabbr]

Ok thanks! "Stereo reduced" ... didn't try that setting because ... err.. never thought I'd want my stereo reduced ... 

[jabbr]

Now (this is still a non-HQP issue), when I uninstall and then reinstall the NOS1a driver, I get *2* drivers names:
"Phasure NOS1a Out1 L/R"
"Phasure NOS1a Out2 L/R"

the first does only the left channel and the second only the right channel.

Somehow, even though I've uninstalled and then rebooted and then reinstalled, Windows remembers my settings.. (Stereo reduced)


Jonathan

[PeterSt]

Jonathan, this is all normal but still works in combination with the switch I mentioned, which you apparently do not take into account, or which works against you with HQP regarding the understanding of matters. So yes, this is all outside of HQP but since you are using HQP which normal human beings can't even get going (except for me) ...

I want you to download XXHighEnd and use the KS: prefixed driver (HQP does not support Kerner Streaming). There's one additional parameter involved now (but in the end no different than in HQP) and this is the "Is NOS1" button which I want you to activate (red). Now put Sw#5 down and select Multi Channel 4.0 in the NOS Driver Control Panel.
Set the output sampling rate in XXHighEnd to 705600 or 758000 accordingly. Or lower is also allowed (try to avoid 44100/48000).
You will see that this normally works ... (and in one go instead of not-understandable silence from HQP).

Done ?
Then put up Sw#5, deactivate Is NOS1 (blue) and celect Stereo Reduced in the Control Panel. Now select the first L/R device. And, taking into account that you need to set the driver settings per that screenshot I referred to yesterday (I take it that you have done that anyway), you will see again that it works. That is, if the output sampling rate in XXHighEnd is now set to 352800/384000 max.

While this is the mode for HQP, do notice that you now just as well can use the KS: Prefixed driver again. So you can see what's happening. But this is what HQP can not do (you won't be able to select / see that driver in there).

Understand all ?
Then now start over with HQP which people without this guide (/topic) can't do anyway. Me neither. Well, I did in the end ...
IOW don't blame yourself and hold on.

Peter

PS: And always keep on thinking about that Sw#5 because I have the hunch you maybe don't ...

[jabbr]

I'm getting all sorts of errors.

Switches #2,#3,#5 all down. NOS1a checked (red)
XXHE gives me "Engine #3" fails to start
"Unsupported format" errors with both FLAC and AIFF files...

The screenshots in the "Dummy" install guides don't match 2.07 so I feel that I'm flailing

[acg]

Hi Jabbr,

Probably best to start a new topic with your XXHE install problems.   Peter likes to keep threads largely on topic.

Xxhe can be tricky to get installed so I commiserate, and although Peters English is light years ahead of my Dutch  I occasionally miss something in translation but if you follow the instructions exactly it should work and of not ask Peter in a new topic.

Since I went to RAM-OS I've not had to install xxhe so will be of little help.

Anthony

[jabbr]

After multiple reboots, reinstalls and who knows what, it is working in XXHE ... now onto HQP as NAA. Sound is terrific so far

[PeterSt]

[manisandher]

... now onto HQP as NAA.

So help me out here. How would you be able to connect the NOS1a to an NAA without a Linux driver for the NOS1a? What am I missing?

I use the following chain in my office system:

Roon (on music server) -> direct ethernet connection -> HQPlayer (on W10 audio PC) -> NOS1a

Here, the audio PC can't be regarded as an NAA, because it's doing the heavy lifting for HQPlayer... right?

Mani.

[jabbr]

... now onto HQP as NAA.

So help me out here. How would you be able to connect the NOS1a to an NAA without a Linux driver for the NOS1a? What am I missing?

I use the following chain in my office system:

Roon (on music server) -> direct ethernet connection -> HQPlayer (on W10 audio PC) -> NOS1a

Here, the audio PC can't be regarded as an NAA, because it's doing the heavy lifting for HQPlayer... right?

Mani.

The NAA can run either Windows or Linux.

In my case I run HQPlayer on an OS X machine which outputs to NAA.
XXHE runs fine on the machine I want to use as NAA. I have a lot of both PCM and DSD source material that I want to compare side by side.

My problem is that when I click the #5 switch up/off, and set the driver -> Stereo reduced, then I get 2 drivers in Windows' list of drivers, and when I select the first for the NAA connection, I get sound in my left ear, and when I select the second, I get sound in the right ear. If I either leave the switch up or down, and select Multichannel 4.0, then I get 1 driver, and all the sound is in the left ear

I also tried remoting the NOS1a across my fiberoptic network at the USB level (VirtualHere) but that just didn't work (no surprise

What would be great would be if Roon could just stream to XXHE...

Alternatively PeterSt can compile XXHE for the Windows 10 armhf version ... (in my dreams) and then it can run on the ClearFog...

[PeterSt]

Hi Jonathan,

Possibly I don't have any real input for you, but I can always try ...

I feel that for 50% of the "challenge" you may think upside down. But, this is already hard for myself to pose correctly. So :

If you run XXHighEnd on what we'd call the Audio PC, then this PC containts totally nothing. Btw I am pretty sure that you do similar with the iSCSI boot (but it is not 100% the same, technically). Thus :
OS boots from RAM and now everything and all can be disconnected. This includes the Network.

When music data is needed, the network is connected (software wise) and the files are loaded in RAM of the Audio PC (this is the PC which plays the music and where the DAC is connected to). After that, network is disconnected again.
Side note : when RDC is used then a small portion of the network needs to stay alive - let's solve that one day.

When music is playing, it is XXEngine3.exe which is active. Nothing else. This situation is as lean as I could make it. Notice though that XXEngine3 is running on the Audio PC itself which may feel counter productive because others do this some other way around : they control the Audio PC on a distance, the player GUI running on that PC at the distance. In our case the player GUI runs on the Audio PC itself, but is completely killed when music starts. Only a small hook to keyboard shortcuts remain, for control.

So intead of controlling the Audio engine from a distance, there is no control needed because all else on the Audio PC is killed and the remaining situation is the same as the one you're thinking of : the audio engine running on its own in a dedicated PC (because it just made itself into that).

The way the music is loaded is exactly the same as in your thinking (I suppose) with the difference perhaps that it is not pushed but pulled by the Audio PC itself. When ? well, when no music is playing - you being in (GUI) control again and thus harmless.

The mistake you may be making is the thinking that the Audio "processor" must be small and not-consuming etc. etc. ... WRONG. Wrong because nobody has ever been able to proove that anything small sounded for the better; the contrary - it is deep-sh*t (and should be your situation as of now, no matter you like it very much).
So my approach is - and always has been the other way around : use that super machine which actually is not needed, with the notice that when it drives a 100 miles/hour it still is in 5 seconds at 200 miles/hour. This, while your PC barely gets at 100 at all.
And the more this strategy is put through, the better the sound is (which is also related to what can be done under the hood for processor cores etc.).
In the end it is the combination, like the 20++ core processor system only consumes 30Watts and that even with linear PSU.

You did try Minimized OS, right ? because it is all about that.
Maybe I should also ask about Unattended Playback because that is what I implicitly talked about (no GUI).


If I am all the way off, just tell me !
And of course don't hesitate in being creative and improve. It's all about that you know. So the text above is only trying to give you some context of the current situation,

Regards,
Peter

[PeterSt]

Roon (on music server) -> direct ethernet connection -> HQPlayer (on W10 audio PC) -> NOS1a

Here, the audio PC can't be regarded as an NAA, because it's doing the heavy lifting for HQPlayer... right?

Right.

[PeterSt]

The NAA can run either Windows or Linux.

In my case I run HQPlayer on an OS X machine which outputs to NAA.
XXHE runs fine on the machine I want to use as NAA.
[...]
My problem is that when I click the #5 switch up/off, and set the driver -> Stereo reduced, then I get 2 drivers in Windows' list of drivers, and when I select the first for the NAA connection, I get sound in my left ear, and when I select the second, I get sound in the right ear. If I either leave the switch up or down, and select Multichannel 4.0, then I get 1 driver, and all the sound is in the left ear

Hmm ... Tell me, do you have actually normal sound at the highest sampling speed (705600 / 768000) ?

Let's say you are ready for the next step : let HQP run on your Windows machine - the exact same situation as how you currently use XXHighEnd and which works (at the highest speed, I assume).
Maybe you already tried that, but do notice that the topic we are typing in is exactly about this. Thus if you can not get this to run first, then any NAA situation will be too problematic.
Now :

Assumed that you already had HQP (Desktop version !) normally running on the same Windows PC as where you have XXHighEnd running, you will then definitely know how to set things, right ? Now do the same in the NAA environment.
Doesn't work there ? then call out for Jussi.

Keep in mind that for me too it is mighty difficult without the experience (again see this topic) and that, for example, it is very easy to forget to set that one Windows setting (I again refer to that screenshot) - which coincidentally is a W10 issue.
Anyway, it would be my guess (easily) that the NAA version hasn't been tested by anyone regarding this matter. Or maybe it was, but then not the Windows incarnation of it.
And uhm ... I did not even know that this existed ...

We'll get it to work !
Peter

[PeterSt]

Alternatively PeterSt can compile XXHE for the Windows 10 armhf version ... (in my dreams) and then it can run on the ClearFog...

At this moment I can't tell whether this is (relatively) easily possible or not. You actually should ask Jussi because I recall that ever back he made his software (or sound engine part) run on ARM for the Surface. Mind you, this can be (or could be !) done for WASAPI only. The kind of fun was that already that behaved like a nice audio endpoint because WASAPI inherently supports (supported ?) such a thing.
On a side note, I have been glad not to dive into such a solution because no ARM Surface exists any more ...

So the question is how transparant this ARM/WASAPI is. If this is not Surface related at all, it can still be done. But Jussi will be able to tell from the top of his head; I will only know after attempting it.

On another note, do notice that exactly nobody is using WASAPI (in XXHighEnd) while everybody is just allowed to. It just sounds worse (and is another layer) and has few possibilities compared to Kernel Streaming. But hey, this is on normal Windows where the choice exists ...

Peter

[manisandher]

I've had a couple of PMs recently asking me to just go through the steps in getting the Roon -> HQPlayer -> NOS1 path working correctly. Most of the important steps have already been spelled out in Peter's earlier posts in this thread, but I thought I'd put it all together.

1. Make sure you are in Normal OS!

2. Install Phasure driver (I use 1.04).

3. Go into Windows Sound Properties and make sure 'Disable all enhancements' is ticked [Peter discovered that this is the key to getting this all to work].

4. In HQPlayer Settings, select Phasure NOS1 Out 4.0 as Device

5. Make sure '2wire' is ticked [the NOS1 is probably the only DAC that can actually use this in PCM!]

6. Peter found that the correct sample rate needs to be selected in the Phasure Control Panel. (The rate shown in the Control Panel will be 1/2 the rate that will actually be sent to the NOS1 - don't worry about this, that's what the '2wire' is all about.) Ordinarily, XXHighEnd will do all this automatically, but HQPlayer doesn't seem to be able to do this. So we need to do it manually. What I recommend is simply selecting 384kHz first, and then selecting 352.8kHz back again - to force the Control Panel to the rate we want.

7. Probably best to test that everything is working locally at this point. But ultimately, you want to use Roon remotely. To do this, firstly ensure the 'network' icon is selected on the HQP Desktop.

8. In Roon, add HQPlayer. Simply put in the IP address where HQP sits.

9. Test that everything is working correctly!

10. Everything will work in MinOS mode and RAM-OS, but make sure you have 'Stop WASAPI' disengaged in XXHighEnd before going into MinOS.

11. Sit back and enjoy the second best sound you can achieve from a NOS1 

Fire away with questions if you have any.

Mani.