NOS1a and HQPlayer on Win 10

[PeterSt]

PS: Another indication for 14393.0 is that the loudspeaker icon remains "red" (not available) until you explicitly change the output channels (and back). So this is all once again W10 sh*t ...

[manisandher]

Peter, I just loaded the iFi driver and connected the iFi Nano DAC to the Mach II (W10-14393), and:

1. HQP/WASAPI works perfectly
2. XX/WASAPI works perfectly

So that leaves the NOS1a driver at fault, no?

Mani.

[PeterSt]

No.
That leaves W10 at fault.

You seriously think that this driver, working for years, is going to be revisited because some stupid W10 version (which from its start *always* has problems with sound) suddenly does not work with it ?
Just look how wackey it works with that loudspeaker icon staying red and all. Or how the enhanced tab (which is quite crucial regarding the "Exclusive Mode stuff on it) of the device's properties can appear or disappear.

You can try 1.03 if you like (works with XXHighend properly only (don't forget the driver103.tst)) and may notice that it does not work just the same. I did not try it, but I take it there will be no difference. This makes it go back all the way to Vista.

Peter

[PeterSt]

PS: It was already known that other devices work, so really no need to connect a dozen more for proof. Google for sound device problems and Windows 10 will "help" more.
Don't get drowned in them.

[PeterSt]

I forgot to tell ... regarding what I see, I think I can get it to work at some stage. But at this moment this really can't have priority. Sorry for that.
And I'd say that if one these days wants to use WASAPI he just as well can use 10586.0, which very many do anyway. It is of course for a reason that seriously everybody uses Kernel Streaming (oh sure, a few may say "me not !").

Peter

[manisandher]

And I'd say that if one these days wants to use WASAPI he just as well can use 10586.0, which very many do anyway.

It's not that I want to use WASAPI, but rather that I'd like to use Roon in my office. And in order to do this, I have to get HQP working with the NOS1a.

But you're right, no reason not to use 10586.0 for this purpose, which is exactly what I'll do. So a solution of sorts

Mani.

[PeterSt]

Thank you Mani.
... which doesn't really solve Rica's problem I suppose. So we must all realize that you and me (and many others) boot in a wimp into that other OS - just like me testing this all. But this is very very different from someone not owning the RAM OS Disk. So say that this message is just a heads up for Rica and that I don't want to belittle Rica's problem (nor yours of course).

Regards,
Peter

[RiCo]

Peter,

It appears that I will have to install W10586 if I can find an install media with that release. After installing the new Win version will I have to register XX again?
Peter we'll have to find a way to help / cajole you into moving off Windows!

Regarding SQ comments earlier in the thread, the NOS1a and BASS deliver the goods in spades but to have the 'energy' thing one has to run XXHighEnd and to also have amplifiers with large energy reserves. This is in addition to good power, speaker cables with RLC that compensate the speaker, etc. It usually takes time and money to fine tune such a system. I was lucky to just remove the old DAC and plug NOS1a in my system and the music became alive, really.

My previous comment about the player should not be interpreted as a thumbs down to HQPlayer. On the contrary Jussi has done a fine job with HQPlayer.
On my mini running Yosemite it sounded analytical. When running under Win 10 it has a smoother sound with a blooming bass. When running as a Roon end point the SQ goes down by quite a bit on both OSes - not HQPlayer's fault.

The weakest link in my system right now is the Mini. I will have to either get the HighEndPC or look at Mani's set-up and try to build a similar one. Still not clear to me why he had to water cool his rig when Peter's is running on so much lower power.

Rica

[PeterSt]

Hi Rica,

All loud and clear.

It appears that I will have to install W10586 if I can find an install media with that release.

I will send you a link to that Build right now ...

Peter

[PeterSt]

For myself, or for others :

And *again* I have been strugging for an hour to get something out of HQP. At least from W8 but maybe with the knowledge I obtained there, also from 10586.0 (must see about that later).
In general, this is how it works :

You set the "Sample Rate (/Limit)" to what you want to play or upsample to. As far as I can tell this must be equal to what the Driver is currently set to. And this is the caveat (again,as far as I can see) : HQP does not dictate anything to the Driver for Sample Rate setting - it absorbs instead and next it must match.
When you did these both you MUST reload whatever track in the Playlist because the former one (possibly still there) is connected to its (!) set sample rate and things will never work any more.

A next thing to guess (nothing explicitly in the manual about that, but in the end I figured it out) is that with Dual Wire the Sample Rate in the driver MUST be half of what is set in HQP itself. Thus, set 352800 in there, load a track which next will also show the 352800 in the haeder with the chosen filter, dither means and codec (like PCM). So now things again "match" which remains the prerequisite.
Side note : this ratio is nothing different from XXHighEnd but this works the other way around (the source dictates) and this thus always works (as long as the DAC can accept the output (of the player) Sample Rate.
Also notice that with Dual Wire, 4 channels are expected (as in "Dual Stereo"), thus set the Driver to that (output). But also select the 4.0 Driver in HQP under "Device").

Knowing all this, and especially knowthing that this all works like this, it only takes one step further for 705600 : add that one step everywhere. Thus, set the driver to 352800 (was 176400), set HQP to 750600 in Sample Rate (/Limit), reload the same track and ... it does NOT work.

What I see with Dual Wire, is that somehow now surely the Sample Rate of the Driver is cut in half. Thus, driver can get that command after all and something special possibly is happening. But when that happens, HQP always hangs and must be killed. This is when I go lower with the Sample Rate; When I go higher, again the Sample Rate in the Driver is properly set, but this time just nothing happens for playback but nothing hangs and we can press stop.
I suppose that what is happening here, is that possibly too soon the set Sample Rate is received because it takes maybe 100-200ms to set it (this happens in the DAC). And yes, I now notice that if in this latter situation I press Play one more time, it just works (and I recall that now). And you know what ? loaded with this crazy data I got the 705600 running as well.

Mind you, Windows 8 this time (and 100 minutes or so further AGAIN).

Peter

[PeterSt]

I got it all to work now. See upcoming post ...

[PeterSt]

ALWAYS KILL XXENGINE3.EXE prior to a next playback attempt. This is due to a bug in XXHighEnd which disallows to change the Sound Device from withing the these days always running XXEgnine3.exe.

I will just put all in the sequence I experienced it myself.

Today I started out with W10 10074 in the hope that nothing had changed much regarding the transition from W8/W8.1 to W10. So, I learned that things had changed in WASAPI, and thought that this could be the culprit (something not compatible any more, which could count for XXHighEnd but just the same for HQP.


Thus this is for W10 10074 :

You may notice the flashing loudspeaker icon in the Taskbar Tray (people reported this (ever changign sample rate) in the past indeed, and I recall that "one time playing" solved that flashing).

Switch off all Enhancements in Sound Device Properties - Enhancement tab.

(later we will see that this is key to all)

Select KS in XXHighEnd and play a little. This stops the flashing, and gives the ability to change other things while being in "WASAPI mode" (otherwise the ever changing locks you out from applying different settings).

Do notice that I am first attempting to let XXHighEnd work with WASAPI under W10 (and sure not the ever so (for me) vague HQP incarnation of it).

Select WDM in XXHighEnd and play a little.

Loudspeaker icon in Taskbar Tray now does not flash and all is fine. We can play with the WDM (WASAPI) device with just these settings (but they are not crucial

One caveat : Afer a reboot we again must first play a little in KS and repeat the procedure. I dedicate this to W10074.

Here some more screenshots to show the major settings which work in consistency (again, without seeing anything crucial about it) :

I apply the same to 10586.0.

In 10586.0 HQP plays up to 352800 (352800 in HQP settings and 176400 in Driver Control Panel). Notice that this is with 2Wire.
XXHighEnd is fine with 705600.

In 10586.0 HQP *only* plays with mentioned 352800. Not higher but also nothing lower. To me it seems that this is stuck in the missing tab (Driver Properties - Enhanced). So the main thing occurring opposed to W8 is that HQP will not change the Sample Rate as we see it in the Driver Control Panel (I did not test this with 10074).

I decide to reinstall the driver.
When the Driver is reinstalled, the Advanced Tab comes back; what we can see in there is that only sample rates 24/44.1, 24/48, 24/88.2, 24/96, 24/192 and 24/384 are supported for Shared Mode. 24/384 is (found to be) selected.
When we play a little with the KS: driver, the Advanced tab disappears.
Playback Attempt gives an "Invalidarg" error message.
After this re-install of the driver it appeared that I forgot to disable all Enhancements, and when I did that, the advanced tab reappeared. Also, there's now 24/382.8 visible, but in a strange fashion.

I now selected this 24/352.8 in the Advanced Tab.
HQP now works.
(later I found that this step of selecting this 24/352.8 most probably is unrelated)

I set the Driver Control Panel to 384, set HQP to 768, selected a 24/96 and that works as well.
Maybe this can go with less manipulation, but at least this all works.

I rebooted 10586.0, started with a 16/44.1 which played right away. However, I abusively let HQP be at 768 and so it played with 768 output.
In the hope not to destroy things, I changed the Driver Control Panel to 352.8, changed HQP to 705.6 and all still worked.

The above has all been in Attended Mode.

I Deactivated Stop WASAPI services (so with Unattended Mode nothing of the above can have worked, thus please think of this) and booted into MinOS.
HQP still works in one go.

The above has been 10586.0. Now 14393.0 :

14393.0 seemed more wackey to me, as this somehow allows for the loudspeaker icon to go red. This, while the sound device is still there *if* one can open the sound device stuff via that icon (which is not always the case). In earlier occasions (5 or so) I never ever got any smallest sound from 14393.0 (WASAPI).

First I am going to reinstall the driver (always the 1.04b one).
I usually do this by means of the Setup.exe and not via explicit Uninstalling from the "installed" folder. Doing it like this usually implies that a reboot is necessary right after the automtaic Uninstall (this is asked for) but not always. This time it again was (feels good that ot does so). After the reboot I started the Setup.exe again.

Loudspeaker icon is now normally white.
All shows the same, in every aspect, as 10586.0 did.
I again disabled all the Enhancements.

I set HQP to 705.6 (2 wire), Driver Control Panel to 352.8, loaded a 16/44.1 and ... that now too works in one go, while before I was dead sure that especially 14393.0 couldn't do a thing with this (and WASAPI in general).

Conclusion : Because of a totally stupid W10 quirk nothing works. But find that quirk and you won't notice a thing of "nothing works". I am again 4 hours further.


Let's keep in mind that this setting is the major one which lets all fail, when set differently than you see here :

Peter

[manisandher]

Hi Peter, everything's working here with 14393. Thanks so much for spending the time to sort this out - I doubt anyone else would've been able to.

I've just completed my office audio PC build (to replace the microRendu, which I sold) and this solution could not have come at a better time. I haven't tried Roon yet, but will do so soon.

Thanks again.

Mani.

[manisandher]

I'm currently sitting in my home office listening to music through my newly-built audio PC (with RAM-OS) and Roon -> HQPlayer (poly-sinc-xtr, NS5, 705.6) -> NOS1a, and I have to say I'm very pleased with the results. So much better than the microRendu/LPS-1 I was using before.

Comparing HQP to XX has been interesting. XX just sounds more 'alive' and real. I'm not sure if this is down to the different filters in the 2 players or XX's memory capabilities. For 'critical' listening in my main room, I'll always use XX. But for listening to music in my office, the slightly 'darker' and generally more relaxed sound from HQP works well. And I like using Roon in my office, though less so in my main room where I usually know what I want to listen to but sometimes find it hard to locate in Roon.

Thanks again Peter. I'm very happy

Mani.

[PeterSt]

Hi Mani - Thank you for sharing !

Best regards,
Peter