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boleary
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« on: January 03, 2016, 02:58:47 pm » |
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So I've noticed that I and one other in this forum, Joachim, use 8x instead of 16x upsampling. As Joachim recently posted, 8x sounds tonally better and, for me, there is a greater texture or presence to the sound. Am wondering if there are other folks who, with the NOS1 or 1a, use sample rate other than 16x? My theory on why 8x sounds best here is that I use significant room treatments in my man-cave and I believe Joachim does too. I believe the room treatments eliminate most of the high frequency hash in the room which is similar to using 16x upsampling. However, the sound with 16x lacks weight and tone in a "treated room." As you know I am no expert, just going by what sounds best here. Just wondering what others might think about this.
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christoffe
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« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2016, 06:15:44 pm » |
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Hi Robert,
my room is not treated, but my listening SPL is well below 70dB(A) most of the time.
I'm using the "custom filter" setting 352800/High.
Made a short comparision between 16xAP/8xAp using Peter's "Seagull" record again, and in my opinion there is more ambience with 8xAP.
Joachim
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boleary
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2016, 01:13:37 pm » |
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Joachim, interesting you do not have room treatments. I thought you did based on prior comments you made, but maybe that was someone else. Addressing points of first and second reflection really improved things here. Also I notice your choice of tuning feet under your NOS1a, I use Daruma 3-II's. I guess we are the only ones using 8x upsampling instead of 16x? Funny I usually listen at an average SPL between 75 and 77 (A). I used to think that 16x upsampling sounded better at higher volumes but not anymore.
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XX2.07/MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W10586/32 Gigs 1600 DDR3/ Clarixa usb cable /Q1,3,4,5 = *14*/1/1/*1* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *.02,/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off except LAN & RDC/ Persist off/No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / Boost on/XTweaks : Balanced Load = *40* / Nervous Rate = 1/ Cool when Idle = NA / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Best/ Time Stability = On/ No Up-sampling/R-2R DAC
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AlainGr
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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 03:45:42 am » |
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Hi,
Just tried with 8x instead of 16x.
> NOS1 (not NOS1a)
> NOS1 Driver 1.0.3
> NOS1 Driver "Stereo Full"
> NOS1 switch #5 up
> "IS Phasure NOS1" OFF (no red light on it)
The Intona High Speed USB Isolator is connected.
First impressions... I am not sure but here I go:
- Bass sounds a little more prominent. Not tighter, but more relaxed.
- Percussions and some details are somewhat less accute.
- There is a certain roundness and at this early stage it could have the "ambiance" adjective to it.
So a little warmer and rounder.
I do not have room treatment. My room is more on the "echo" than "absorbent".
Comparison is made with identical adjustments.
Could this be another way to adjust or address something, no matter if I mention 32/384 or 32/768 ?
Peter, I suppose that at 32/768, the distorsion figures are lesser ?
Alain
PS: I will switch from time to time, but I was curious.
These are very early impressions.
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PeterSt
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« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2016, 05:06:00 am » |
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Peter, I suppose that at 32/768, the distorsion figures are lesser ? Alain, yes. But other "accuracy" measures may be less/different and we can not measure them. Say like USB cables. Still, what we can measure should be prevalent. So I would always hunt for the 32/768 (24/768) to sound the best over the lower rate. If that doesn't happen, something else should be out of order. Understand ? (and for sure no need to agree !). When I say "a little", it really means Now please continue ...  Peter |
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Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).
For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10 (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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AlainGr
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« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2016, 05:17:10 am » |
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Peter, I suppose that at 32/768, the distorsion figures are lesser ? Alain, yes. But other "accuracy" measures may be less/different and we can not measure them. Say like USB cables. Still, what we can measure should be prevalent. So I would always hunt for the 32/768 (24/768) to sound the best over the lower rate. If that doesn't happen, something else should be out of order. Understand ? (and for sure no need to agree !). When I say "a little", it really means Now please continue ... Peter Hi Peter, Don't tell me you suffer from insomnia yourself too ? That phrase that I did not finish... Was started for what I already wrote, but I restarted and I forgot to check what is left... Misleading eh... I do agree by the way. It sure makes sense, but it can be hard to identify what is going on... There are details I can hear that surprises me, but now I have to admit that I need to be more focused instead of being lazy. I would like to put more precise words to reflect my impressions, but still I know that you are the "leader" (in the positive sense) and I try to apply it in my learning curve. There are songs I use for very specific sounds or instruments. I like percussions, so I have a song with percussions that I really like. I use that when I wish to hear some realism. Sometimes I will listen to another instrument that I can't even identify, but it will be either more or less prominent. My "beacons" are more or less loose but help me in my steps towards better SQ. I am still impressed with all that XXHE can allow. I can have headaches too ! Kind regards, Alain PS: Melatonin + valerian to help sleeping |
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Desktop with ASUS Sabertooth X79 motherboard,Intel 3930k 6 cores (+ 6) at 1.2 GHZ,32GB ram 1333Mhz,Win 10 pro build 14386 64 bit with no updates,OS + XXHE on external Sata III SSD (Esata), music (WAV) on external 5200 rpm drive through network, OS MInimized, XX with engine 4 adaptive,4096 (buffer size), CPU with scheme 3,Player = Low,Thread = RealTime, Q1 = 14,Q345 = 1,1,1,Q1x=1,Clock res = (variable),Stop Desktop Services,Stop Remaining Services,Stop Wasapi,,LAN on,persist = on,all OSD off,SFS = 2,PE off,PA off, Arc Prediction,x16 Upsample, Straight Contiguous,Lush USB cable,Phasure NOS1a DAC,Meitner PA-6 preamp, Spectral Audio DMA-180 Power Amp, Tannoy System 15 DMT II, Tannoy St-100 supertweeters, Tannoy TS2.12 subwoofers (2). * On hiatus for a while...
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AlainGr
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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2016, 05:36:36 am » |
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Ok, I will try to explain "little"... When I was reading audio magazines, someone was trying to explain what expressions about the importance of changes were meaning. Beyond a certain point, each incremental, even the subtlest of change may be very important and would be quite expensive. Some differences will be a lot more important than others, but still it will only be very tiny. So it is not always obvious to quantify what one means by things like "Night and Day" or "subtle improvement" - any description that carries our enthusiasm, our surprise - anything to bring an image to an impression.
And this is my challenge. Trying to define if what I hear can be hearable again tomorrow, the day after, next week... If it is important or not, etc...
Alain
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Desktop with ASUS Sabertooth X79 motherboard,Intel 3930k 6 cores (+ 6) at 1.2 GHZ,32GB ram 1333Mhz,Win 10 pro build 14386 64 bit with no updates,OS + XXHE on external Sata III SSD (Esata), music (WAV) on external 5200 rpm drive through network, OS MInimized, XX with engine 4 adaptive,4096 (buffer size), CPU with scheme 3,Player = Low,Thread = RealTime, Q1 = 14,Q345 = 1,1,1,Q1x=1,Clock res = (variable),Stop Desktop Services,Stop Remaining Services,Stop Wasapi,,LAN on,persist = on,all OSD off,SFS = 2,PE off,PA off, Arc Prediction,x16 Upsample, Straight Contiguous,Lush USB cable,Phasure NOS1a DAC,Meitner PA-6 preamp, Spectral Audio DMA-180 Power Amp, Tannoy System 15 DMT II, Tannoy St-100 supertweeters, Tannoy TS2.12 subwoofers (2). * On hiatus for a while...
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christoffe
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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2016, 11:13:24 am » |
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Hi,
Just tried with 8x instead of 16x.
> NOS1 (not NOS1a)
> NOS1 Driver 1.0.3
> NOS1 Driver "Stereo Full"
> NOS1 switch #5 up
> "IS Phasure NOS1" OFF (no red light on it)
Hi ALain, a lot of us are now with the USB driver 1.04, but I don't know if that works with the NOS1. On my system 1.04 favours the SQ compared to 1.03. Joachim |
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boleary
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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2016, 01:43:09 pm » |
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I'm still using driver version 1.03, hopefully that will change sometime today. Here 16x upsampling is just too airy. Wish I knew why.... |
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PeterSt
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2016, 02:11:20 pm » |
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Brian - too airy ?
Can that exist ?
What are the downsides of that ??
Sorry for a stupid question, but I'd say that it never can be too airy. Unless you mean something else than what I have in my mind with "air".
Peter
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XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13* (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).
For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10 (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.
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Stanray
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2016, 03:27:23 pm » |
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On my system 1.04 favours the SQ compared to 1.03.
Joachim
Joachim: In what way does 1.04 favours over 1.03? Peter: Is there a technical reason for that? Stanley |
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September 2021: Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM/ XXHE 2.11 / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/1 / Q1Factor = 4/ Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 10ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 10.13 (max 10,13)/ No Filter/ not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Peak Extend Off /Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback/ UnAttended / All Services Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : 62, 1, -, 1, 1/ Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = On / Custom Filtering Low (16x) / -> Lush^3 USB-cable 70cm (A: W-Y-R-G, B: W-G) > Phasure NOS1a 75B G3 DAC, Driver v1.0.4) (16ms)/ Output via Balanced Blaxius BNC Interlinks > Audio Analogue Maestro monoblock amplifier > speakers: Apogee Acoustics Scintilla (custom rebuild).
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PeterSt
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2016, 03:55:09 pm » |
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Stanley,
This has been "discussed" before. No, there is no reason for it that I know. And, I also don't know whether it is true or not. Ok, of course it is because people tell so, but I never noticed it. Bbbbut ... I also never tested it explicitly.
Regards,
Peter
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XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13* (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).
For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10 (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.
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christoffe
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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2016, 03:56:58 pm » |
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On my system 1.04 favours the SQ compared to 1.03.
Joachim
Joachim: In what way does 1.04 favours over 1.03? Peter: Is there a technical reason for that? Stanley Hi Stanley, see here. Michael wrote about it first, and I hear the same improvement http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=3237.msg35828#msg35828Joachim |
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boleary
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« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2016, 01:53:37 pm » |
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Brian - too airy ?
Can that exist ?
What are the downsides of that ??
Sorry for a stupid question, but I'd say that it never can be too airy. Unless you mean something else than what I have in my mind with "air".
Peter
Maybe airy is the wrong word. At 16x upsampling the "feeling" here is that the sound is too delicate. It lacks weight or what, to me, feels like presence. It's as though some vital information gets lost and I hear voices coming from heads instead of entire body's. Of course there is a bit of a trade off. At very high volumes the sound at 16x is a bit smoother but it still sounds lacking in the same way. Sorry I don't know how to describe this better. But the overall tone sounds more realistic here at 8x upsampling. |
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PeterSt
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« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2016, 03:00:37 pm » |
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Brian, I understand now.
Possibly you are not familiar with the phenomenon "airy" or maybe better "with air". This is how all is going to float with "see through" and more I too can not describe. But it looks like something very different from what you describe.
Thanks,
Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13* (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).
For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10 (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.
Global Moderator
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