Windows 10 build 10074 expiration

[Michel]

But what happens ?
The empty Playlist Area should now show Windows 8.1.
Does it ?
If not, I'd say your rename didn't work out as intended. Thus, has to be :

OSIsW81.tst

And only one at the time may be in there with .tst as extension.

Peter

Peter,

I'm not at home, and will later change this evening extension again.
Perhaps I did wrong, but for now nothing had changed in the Playlist Area. Its the same as before.

Regards,
Michel

[PeterSt]

Michel, you can very wll be right. Your screenshot of it already shows different than the situation Colin actually described for you. In that case it "should" show WinNT or something like that. You have completely nothing. ... No, worse, you have "Microsoft" in that place. I don't think I have ever seen that.

You can't uninstall that anti-watermark stuff ? (I don't think so because it's probably a "patch" that changes a file)

So yes, start thinking about a fresh install.
Do not forget to use an older date, in your BIOS already.

Regards,
Peter

[AlainGr]

I did a test just minutes ago. Connected a screen, keyboard and mouse to my music PC, that is not connected to Internet. Have Win 10 pro x64, build 10074.

First I tried changing to date through BIOS (UEFI). The date was holding, but as soon as I was booting into Windows, it was reverted to todays's date. I did this attempt 3 times. Not working.

Then I accessed the "date" from the cmd.exe icon I created from Peter's suggestion (that was suggested some months ago).
Typing:
date
Then entering today's date, but in 2013, it worked.

Now my system is showing 2013-09-19.

I have made a shutdown, then booted a few times. It is keeping the date (2013-09-19).

I will check for a few days to see if it holds and report back.

There seems to be many different behaviors depending on factors that I do not know.

My Windows 10 installation was done in the beginning of July, from Windows 8 plain vanilla. I did not ask to "scr*p" Windows 8, but started from it. I can't say if that explains why everything is going fine here, but I am happy with the results. Of course I have removed all references to Windows 8 ("old files") with the disk cleaning MS application.

Alain

[juanpmar]

This is how I did it: First I installed W10 from a cd without connecting the Music PC to Internet at any time. With Windows10 present date I started XXHighEnd like the usual way. Then in Minimized mode I restarted from the stop button. From there I accessed to the  bios where I changed the date to 2012. I saved the  changes and exit. Started again XXHighEnd and from then on I always used the stop right click button to restart or shut down the pc. This way and so far it preserves the 2012 date. I never connected the Music PC to Internet neither changed the Minimized mode. I haven't registered W10 either.
Juan

[dsm]

I've kept build 10074  minimized since soon after the install, have not changed the date and it never connects to the internet. I have not yet seen a screen that says it will expire soon. is there a chance that I will never see the screen but come October first, it will not boot up correctly?

Best,

David

[AlainGr]

Hi David,

The reason why you do not see the message is because you are in Minimized OS... I checked yesterday by going back in Normal OS and then I saw the message.

My Music PC is not connected to the internet neither and the only time I do is when there is a real need for it...

Regards,

Alain

Edit: Now that I am back in 2013, I even feel a little younger

[juanpmar]

Hi David,

The reason why you do not see the message is because you are in Minimized OS... I checked yesterday by going back in Normal OS and then I saw the message.

Hey Alain,  does it mean that there is a clock in the SO that is running without taking into consideration the date but instead a certain amount of days? What is the sense to change the date in that case?

Regards,
Juan 

[AlainGr]

Hi David,

The reason why you do not see the message is because you are in Minimized OS... I checked yesterday by going back in Normal OS and then I saw the message.

Hey Alain,  does it mean that there is a clock in the SO that is running without taking into consideration the date but instead a certain amount of days? What is the sense to change the date in that case?

Regards,
Juan 

Hi Juan

I am not sure of your question, but I will try to suggest a possible answer...

When my attempts through BIOS did not work, I supposed there was some information hidden somewhere, read (an written) by the OS. For example, since today is Septermber 20th, 2015, the OS would write this in a file. Even if I fool around with the date in BIOS, the OS will determine by reading that file that it can't be earlier than this. So it would restore the latest recorded date.

This is a simplistic attempt to explain why it was not accepting the BIOS change of date.

On the other hand, why did it work when I used the "date" program from the command line ? A bug ? Some kind of workaround ? Could be. But why did it work for others through BIOS, while not for me... If I go on with my attempt to explain, I would guess that the "date" program erases the previous hidden information, resetting it to the date I entered...

With tens of millions lines of code in the OS, depending on how each one installed Windows 10, the explanation lies somewhere...

I am still surprised it worked... For the moment, all seem to hold...

Regards,

Alain

[PeterSt]

Hi Alain,

What Juan was hinting at (I think, because I noticed the same suggestion in your text) is that you seem to imply that as soon as you're in Normal OS Mode something else deals with the date. Giving a message indeed is something else, but how can you tell the difference. And I think that in MinOS you just might not get the message (but system will start to reboot and eventually stop anyway).

But what you did not tell (I think) is whether what you saw in Normal OS was just coincidental because you (coincidentally) rebooted into Normal OS, or that you could really see a difference.

I know, my questions are super vague ...

But for example :
Set date two years back in MinOS. Reboot - all fine.
Now reboot into Normal OS. Now there's the message but ALSO the date is back to today. So is it this what you mean ?
Supplementary, reboot into MinOS in this stage, and the date is still back to today (but this is hardly related any more).


I think Juan wondered whether you meant something like this ... (which I feel is hard to believe, so you must have meant something else).

Regards,
Peter

[Michel]

Hi All

Last night I did a fresh install of w10. Before the installation i put back de date one month through  the bios.Once windows installed directly put back the date two years through cmd (admin rights). A few times rebooted and played some music (waiting for an activation code), but the date remains at 2013 and that in normal OS.

I must say i have disable the windows time service. And not connection to the internet.

I hope it helps!

Regards,
Michel

[AlainGr]

Hi Michel,

Good news I hope it will work that way for a long time ! I don'T know why Windows does not necessarily accept the date and time from the BIOS, but at least we have the "date" program that works

Regards,

Alain

[AlainGr]

Hi Alain,

What Juan was hinting at (I think, because I noticed the same suggestion in your text) is that you seem to imply that as soon as you're in Normal OS Mode something else deals with the date. Giving a message indeed is something else, but how can you tell the difference. And I think that in MinOS you just might not get the message (but system will start to reboot and eventually stop anyway).

But what you did not tell (I think) is whether what you saw in Normal OS was just coincidental because you (coincidentally) rebooted into Normal OS, or that you could really see a difference.

I know, my questions are super vague ...

But for example :
Set date two years back in MinOS. Reboot - all fine.
Now reboot into Normal OS. Now there's the message but ALSO the date is back to today. So is it this what you mean ?
Supplementary, reboot into MinOS in this stage, and the date is still back to today (but this is hardly related any more).


I think Juan wondered whether you meant something like this ... (which I feel is hard to believe, so you must have meant something else).

Regards,
Peter

Hi Peter,

I am sorry if my answer was implying a different mechanism between Min OS and Normal OS. I only was curious to see if I would also see the ending message by going back into Normal OS. It was not a coincidence.

So to your question: I am not saying that the date would only be reset by Windows in Normal OS mode. I was not aware that my answer could imply this conclusion. I was not really testing for this.

IOW: I have always preferred to do some stuff in Normal OS mode.

All I can say is that one day or the other, one would decide to go back in Normal OS. That is why all my attempts were done in Normal OS.

After discovering that the "date" program (in command mode) was allowing the date to change and be kept as is by Windows 10, I rebooted many times, either after a shutdown or through many restarts. I also went back and forth between Normal OS and MinOS a few times, to be sure that all was stable (date not changing again).
....

I can only assume that Windows has a limited way of knowing what the real date/time is:
- By connecting to a server on the internet (nntp)
- By checking with the BIOS
- By having a limited reference through some internal file that it updates throughout a session.

Knowing that we are not connected to internet (...), we can assume that Windows frame of reference can only be from the BIOS and a reference file that Windows controls.

If I put a later date in the BIOS, I doubt that Windows can really validate it without the internet.

But if I put an earlier date in the BIOS, I suppose that Windows can validate it (and discard it) (still without the internet).

All of what I wrote is speculation. I don't know how it is implemented, but if I was to validate a date that was showed to me, the only way I can imagine a limited validation would be through some kind of a reference file I would have to compare.

?

Regards,

Alain

[juanpmar]

Alain, once I read today the question I asked you yesterday I realized that it was not easy to understand. Your previous post seems to explain quite well the different ways for the OS to control the date.
What I wanted to say is that if we change the date in MinOS, are we stopping the command that counts the dates? If the only thing we are changing when we change the date in MinOS is the notification of the expiration date but not the real countdown, then we are not solving the issue.
I´m afraid that it will be difficult to know until October 1th.

But let´s think that we can´t stop the countdown, which it seems to me quite probable. Then, the real problem it´s not only to make the final W10 to sound as good as the v10074, the problem also will be if we can or can not to stop the automatic OS updates. If we can´t stop the updates we´ll have a permanent instability for what is important to us: the XXHE sound quality. That was the reason to stop the updates in the previous OS. In that case, probably Peter will be forced to work in a specific OS for XXHE. That could be a titanic task but... who said fear?

Regards,
Juan

PS. Take a look in this link to Are the automatic updates good or bad?:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/windows-10-update-everything-you-need-to-know/

[AlainGr]

Hi Juan,

From what I understand now, you changed the date in the BIOS and Windows was in Min OS when you booted after ? It could very well be that Windows is unable to verify the system date through that hypothetical file that I assume to exist. But like you say, we will know this when October 1st arrives This may explain why the date change in BIOS worked for you

Maybe if you go back in Normal OS mode, you will have your answer ? Then, going back to Min OS and then changing the date again in BIOS, all will work like the first time ?

Even so, I would suggest to use the "date" command under the command line - that in Normal OS mode. This will ensure that the changing to the latest date will not occur. Normal OS would seem to be a stronger way, but I could be wrong of course...

Regards,

Alain

[christoffe]

Then, the real problem it´s not only to make the final W10 to sound as good as the v10074, the problem also will be if we can or can not to stop the automatic OS updates. If we can´t stop the updates we´ll have a permanent instability for what is important to us: the XXHE sound quality.

Hi Juan,

within the W10 pro (build 10240) you can stop/avoid any update.
(for an audio PC not connected to the internet)

Joachim