XXHE v. 2.02: problem using Normalize Volume

[AlainGr]

Hi Peter,

This morning I was listening to an album that I haven't listened to for a long time.

All of my music is in wav format and I usually do not use Normalized Volume. That changed a few weeks ago and I appreciate its usage now.

I am actually using Windows 10 build 10074 with only XXHighEnd 2.02 on it. Plain vanilla. No connection to the internet.

The album is "The Corrs" entitled "Forgiven Not Forgotten" and the song is "Along With The Girls" (the 4th song on the album). It is a very short song, lasting 49 seconds.

I am using Minimize OS as I do all the time. It has been working fine with all I have been listening to until that song.

The previous songs were playing fine, but when this specific one started, all I heard was a series of "tick" of a certain amplitude that had me jump on the mute button of my preamp. It does this in "unattended" and "attended".

If I try the same but with "Album" instead of "Track" (still under NV) nothing happens - the song does not play. All I can see (in attended mode) is that the leftmost yellow light shows one of the CPU cores is working on it, but it does not go further. When after a minute I press Stop then a window message appears, saying "The thread has been abandoned" (this is a translation from French).

Without NV on, the song plays fine.

The behavior is that same with Normal OS (tried attended only). 

I can send you the song in question if it can be of some help. If required, I could also send some pics of my settings.

I have included the XXAnalysis.dat file with this post.

Regards,

Alain

[PeterSt]

Hi there Alain,

With danger for own live(s) I just tried the album myself. It hadn't been Normalized before.

I did it by expliciet means (rightclick on it in the Library Area - Normalize Volume) and did that thus for the whole album.
That just worked.

Told everybody to close ears when I selected Play on track 04.

all fine.

The SPL of 300 (what you showed in the file) looks very low to me, but possibly that "flute only" song indeed implies a very low SPL. However :
When this is the case and THEN you are going to play it by normal volume ...

So most probably your digital volume now shows +whatever and it is "just wrong". Hard to explain, but I think this can happen when such a low SPL is reported and rounding errors may occur (when to be multilied by close to 15 in this case to reach the normal level - never mind).

What I suggest is to delete that XXAnalysis.dat file and then normalize it (the album) at the album level (not track).

One thing, but it shouldn't matter, ... this is W8 today.

Best regards,
Peter

PS: I could have tried to do it for that track on its own, but I don't like to destroy my evening.

PPS: Always nice to play nice albums like this for which otherwise would have been no reason. So just playing it in full. Thank you ! hehe

[AlainGr]

Hi Peter,

Thanks. I will digesst your answer and will report back. I am not even sure what the "Library area" is, since there are many aspects of XXHE (mostly concerning Galleries and such) that I do not use...

Alain

[AlainGr]

Peter,

Well I finally managed to normalize the whole album like you suggested (Album normalization) and all is fine, as long as I do not use the "Track normalization" (but that was expected).

I noticed what you mean by +6db with the 4th track. To test something, I put the main volume at 0db instead prior to track normalization: it works now.

So it seems that there is an interaction with the main volume at the moment the normalization is calculated and saved in the XXAnalysis.dat file ? I must have been doing it all wrong...

The reason why I use "track" instead of "album" is that I do not  listen often to a whole album. 

Regards,

Alain

[PeterSt]

Alain,

No, you are doing it all fine; the +6dB already tells (me) that it is "over". 4.5dB is, say, programmed to be max, thus if it shows more now it is just plain wrong (and you sure heard that).

I only use the track normalization when a playlist of various albums has been composed. And then still, that would only be to be "fast". It is just dangerous. Not for the reason you just encountered (I never heard of that) but for possibly being way too loud. So take this (04) track as the example. Because of a bit of flute-only it should be way loud ? So about that +6 ... how much more is that than now, with album normalization ? 20++dB ? and ... justified ?
of course not. But technically yes (well, if my math works a little, but I think it's okay and/as I use VN exclusively).

But even at the album level one must be experienced. Classical ? better down the volume 9dB (minimum !) or so to begin with.
So average SPL quite low (upped to normal). But that one or two blasts ...

Peter

[AlainGr]

I do understand the the multiplier seems too high, but I fail to understand how it varies depending upon my usage of the main volume at the time I ask for the track normalization...

For example:
- Main volume is at -6. I play the track normalized and it shows +6 in the normalization window.
- Main volume is at 0. I play the track normalized and it shows +0 in the normalization window.

I erase the XXAnalysis before each adjustment to ensure that the program redo its normalization.

But if my choice of album to start the comparison in the Settings for Volume Normalization is too low, I suppose that this also may bring some problems ? If so, should I put an album that is louder to begin with ?

Thanks again.

Alain
PS: It is not really a problem for me, since I have been using Normalization Volume for the last 2 weeks only. I have to admit I like the concept

[PeterSt]

Hi Alain,

Start using the Normalization with the "headroom" it needs. So you feel that you are close to understanding (with hat album which is used for the comparison) ... but how can an album be louder when needed when you don't give it the digital headroom ...

You need to play at -12dBFS at least, so albums which are very soft can play 12dB louder than the average (plus 4.5dB, depending on the album, but never mind).
And if I say -12dBFS then I anticipate albums which are 12dB softer than average. Why not 18dB ?

What you just did is squeeze all *into* the limits (read : album needs to play louder but it is impossible) and thus into "the bugs". I hardly test situations which can not and should not exist ...

Regards,
Peter

PS: Your problem submerges because you use a pre-amp and are used to -0dBFS (digital volume) to begin with; would you not use the pre-amp then you would never have run into this problem.
Might you want to keep on using -0dBFS then indeed you must find the loudest heavy metal rock etc. which also needs to be squashed (compressed) to the max. - for that reference album.