Nick's "Chronos PC"

[manisandher]

I made my second visit to Nick's place over the weekend. On the previous visit, Nick applied some HW mods to my mobo which I felt improved the sound - not spectacularly, but certainly in the right direction.

I'm not going to go into any details of exactly what we did on this visit. Some of you may know that Nick has spent an inordinate amount of time thinking about the issues that using a regular mobo for audio purposes poses and, more importantly, how to resolve them. He has some serious IP on the subject now, which I think he deserves to protect.

What I will say is that the main objective of this visit was to 'tune' the previous mobo mods using a new piece of kit that Nick had acquired since my previous visit. There was also the installation of one new piece of HW, which again I will not go into.

Before this visit to Nick's, I was very happy with my system, to such an extent actually that I wasn't particularly impatient to get things all 'tuned'. My Orelo MkII speakers had been tuned to my room (and were sounding great). The Blaxius and Clairixa cables were in, and were doing their things. I had starting powering the PC with a linear ATX PSU (no switching supplies absolutely anywhere now!). The overall sound was good, but you may have noticed that I never raved about it. The bass, yes, just after I had played around with the DSP, but I never commented on the overall sound of my system, other than to say I was very happy with it. Well, since this visit to Nick's, I'm inclined to say that I now have the best overall sound (i.e. not just the bass, but everything) that I've ever heard from any system anywhere.

There are two words that spring to my mind immediately when trying to describe what I now have:

1.  'Holographic'. Instruments and voices have rounded edges. I don't mean smoothness vs. edginess, but in terms of visual perception. You can 'see' the curves of instruments. Nothing is a 2D cardboard cutout any more. This is most evident with large instruments like a grand piano or double-bass. Absolutely beautiful.

2. 'Sensual'. What I mean here is that ALL of my senses seem to be engaged when I'm listening to music now. My mouth is literally salivating. I'm feeling different textures and seeing different colours in the sound. I really seem to be hearing through my skin as well as my ears. Nothing sounds dull anymore - everything is vibrate and alive and stimulating my whole body. To such an extent that I simply haven't stopped listening to music since Sunday morning - nearly even missed Top Gear as a result!

Yeah, I know it sounds crazy. But I'm just saying it like I see/hear it.

I think the Gods are being kind to me. Everything seems to have aligned perfectly to achieve this result. All of Peter and Ciska's work. The stuff Paul (Scoobius) has done for me in the past. And now Nick's work. I'm not religious, but I'd just like to thank the Gods.

So why the title of this thread? Well, Nick can offer the PC mods I have in ready-made PC which he's calling 'Chronos'. I have no affiliation with Nick's endeavour whatsoever, but feel compelled to give him this plug. [Edit: I should add also that I have paid in full for all the HW that has been used on my PC, and for Nick's time - I'm not writing this thread as payback for any favours or anything.] My system was very good before this weekend, but now it's simply sublime. And only one thing happened over the weekend - I visited Nick's place.

Fire away with questions or thoughts...

Mani.

[CoenP]

Hi Mani,

Thanks for the inspiring post, it sounds too good to be true especially since all is on windows 8, eh ! Especially your number two caught my attention since that describes exactly what I miss there.

Is Nick intending to present/discuss the Chronos PC on this forum or is it commercially off-limits so to speak and would CA be the proper place?

One thing I am curious about is the remaining influence of the USB cable. Your post suggests such a leap in SQ it is hard to imagine the USB link still makes a significant difference...

regards, Coen

[acg]

I am wondering about the ATX LPS Mani.  Did you notice anything when it was introduced?  You have changed so much gear lately I bet it is difficult to keep up.

[manisandher]

Thanks for the inspiring post, it sounds too good to be true especially since all is on windows 8, eh...

Hi Coen. Not only that, but my Win8 is on an SSD too . I haven't tried going back to a spinning HDD and am not sure if I will.

Is Nick intending to present/discuss the Chronos PC on this forum or is it commercially off-limits so to speak and would CA be the proper place?

I'm not sure how Nick intends to take things forward. Although I'm happy to share my experiences, I'm less inclined to do so on CA - I see it as a very siloed place nowadays with people just attacking others' views and defending their own. Were I to post there, I suspect it'd be a case of, "Mani, the differences you're hearing are impossible so get a better system or get your ears cleaned", as opposed to "That's interesting - I wonder how Nick's Chronos addresses the issues in an audio PC".

As for 'commercially off-limits here', I'll leave that to Peter and Nick. But I can't see Peter objecting to anyone simply sharing their experiences, as I've done. I hope not anyway.

One thing I am curious about is the remaining influence of the USB cable. Your post suggests such a leap in SQ it is hard to imagine the USB link still makes a significant difference...

I should have a better idea of this in the next day or two. But I strongly suspect it's going to be a case of 'everything still matters'... unfortunately.

Mani.

[manisandher]

I am wondering about the ATX LPS Mani.  Did you notice anything when it was introduced?  You have changed so much gear lately I bet it is difficult to keep up.

Hi Anthony. Yep, definitely a lot to keep up with.

Yes, the LPS definitely made a difference before this weekend's antics. It's going to sound clichéd, but I heard a blacker background and a generally more laid back (less 'overly-excitable') sound. Worth the 835 USD I paid? For me, definitely yes - I dreamed for years of ridding my whole system from SMPSs, and now it's finally been achieved. I'm over the moon. And the LPS itself is a very nicely put together piece of kit from Teradak, which worked perfectly straight out of the box - and how many times in this hobby have you been able to say that?

Mani.

[acg]

I am wondering about the ATX LPS Mani.  Did you notice anything when it was introduced?  You have changed so much gear lately I bet it is difficult to keep up.

Hi Anthony. Yep, definitely a lot to keep up with.

Yes, the LPS definitely made a difference before this weekend's antics. It's going to sound clichéd, but I heard a blacker background and a generally more laid back (less 'overly-excitable') sound. Worth the 835 USD I paid? For me, definitely yes - I dreamed for years of ridding my whole system from SMPSs, and now it's finally been achieved. I'm over the moon. And the LPS itself is a very nicely put together piece of kit from Teradak, which worked perfectly straight out of the box - and how many times in this hobby have you been able to say that?

Mani.

Thanks for your impression of the ATX LPS Mani.  It is especially interesting given your system is now very very similar to Peters.  Can't help but wonder what would happen in his system and with his insight with both the LPS and the Chronos PC...there is a history of some 'advances' effectively shut down by a visit to Peter, but you guys sound quite emphatic about the changes this time round.

Nick...how mature is your Chronos PC at the moment?  Is a visit to Peter on the cards?

Cheers,

Anthony

[Nick]

there is a history of some 'advances' effectively shut down by a visit to Peter, but you guys sound quite emphatic about the changes this time round.

Nick...how mature is your Chronos PC at the moment? 

Anthony hi,

I think you may be referring to USB clocks ?
When these went to Peters they performed badly on the day. They were declared a failed idea but personally this just raised the question in my mind why / what had happened ? In a very small way, understanding and solving what had happened helped the gestation of the Chronos server, so not a bad outcome.

Interestingly one of my key objectives was to prove that getting the best possible sound from a PC platform did not need a linear supply. The objective has been met, 90+ % of what is available (see Mani’s post for his view  ) stems from the Chronos build. A good SMTP ATx will perform BRILLIENTLY. Add a linear for the last few per cent, but be in absolutely no doubt that the magic comes with the first 90% the Chronos delivers.

I have been working [hard] on it now physically for > 6 months and background research goes back a year or more.

The Chonos is fully ready to ship.

Regards,

Nick.

[christoffe]

Nick.

HI,

Any possibility to get in touch with you?

Joachim

[Scroobius]

Like Mani I had significant concerns posting these thoughts on Nicks "Chronos" PC, but I think it is important, because it seems that the PC is absolutely key to the music we all listen to - and for sure Chronos would never have happened without NOS1 and XX and all the amazing work Peter did to bring us all to where we are now. Peter if you want to move this or delete then no problem.

Last weekend I visited Nick to bring my PC up to the latest (and I think final) production spec. Please bear in mind that I had previously re-clocked my PC so my impressions on the improved SQ are in addition to previous improvements. In other words the latest mods really make even more of a difference. You will appreciate I cannot relate what those mods are but suffice to say Nick has given them a considerable amount thought and spends considerable time to properly implement them.

Please also bear in mind that my only interest is in SQ and moving it forward, I have no commercial interest whatsoever.

So what do I think? I have to say this is the most important step forward in SQ I have heard with this current system (XX, NOS1a and Orelino's) BUT almost for certain I would not be hearing what I am hearing now without everything Peter has done - would other systems produce what I am hearing now? I have to doubt it, not to the same degree anyway (but maybe I can relate more after Munich High End in May). I would also say that now, for the first time since I have been listening to hifi, I would be quite happy to say "this is it" I now have the sound I was always looking for. Is that too strong? no really this is special. But hey I have said that before.

How would I describe the sound? well that is really difficult because I can't - I mean how do you describe sound that is completely natural and real sounding? I am sure that if I bought some random person in from the street they would say "so what" because it just sounds natural. No big impressive "hi fi" sounds here (thank goodness!).

All I can report is what is gone - a kind of grey sound has gone leaving more real colour and dynamics. There is a darker background. Sounds come from the most precisely located positions between the speakers. With the right recordings there is more depth (I have always been suspicious of depth but it does seem to come with better sound quality). Instruments sound real - shockingly real sometimes. The level of detail is astonishing - there is a fine filigree of detail now that I just have never heard before. You should hear Superbass now - the detail and natural sound of the strings of the double basses is jaw dropping. They are easy to separately distinguish - much easier than before. And I have to say I thought it was special before - but now!!! wow.

I don't know what more to say other than listening to these mods at Nick's place and now here at my place I really do not listen to the "hi fi" for long, I just can't I very quickly get transfixed by the music and do not want to stop listening.

I suspect that even Nick is surprised by the improvements these changes have made.

Nice one Nick!!

Oh by the way Clarixa is being used and was compared it with other USB cables at Nicks and here but I will report on that separately - there was at least one very surprising aspect that I was not expecting.

And I forgot to mention string quartets which I love - well for the first time ever they really do sound good. Decent recordings (like the Kronos recordings) sound fantastic very real with a fantastic acoustic. No hint of aggression from the strings just natural sound. Brilliant that has always been the "holy grail" for me.

Cheers

Paul

[rakeshpoorun]

The Chonos is fully ready to ship.

Hi Nick,

Great to hear that you have completed your "audio pc" project.

What is the price of the Chronos PC?

What is the nature of the modifications that you have carried out and what are the ones that you think resulted in the most improvement?

Best regards
Rakesh

[Nick]

Rakesh hi,

Can you PM me, happy to help but in fairness to Peter we should have an off line conversion.

Kind regards,

Nick.

[rakeshpoorun]

Rakesh hi,

Can you PM me, happy to help but in fairness to Peter we should have an off line conversion.

Kind regards,

Nick.

Hi Nick,

Sure, I will contact you by e-mail if you prefer.

I, however, and I am sure I am not the only one, would prefer a straight answer to the straight questions that I asked.

I have read a very long thread about the USB3/Silverstone/Starteck/Tecknet card and I can see that you contributed regularly in a manner that everyone here, including Peter, found helpful.

You have invested your precious and valuable time in developing your "Chronos Reference PC" and I think there is nothing wrong with you trying to make sure that it is not for nothing if you think that it offers something others might appreciate and pay for.

True. Your pc might appear to compete with Peter's own offering and talking about it here might seem unpalatable self-promotion and competition on his website.

I think that if Peter authorises it, you should be able to contribute freely and everyone is likely to gain from that. The flow of knowledge should never be curtailed or hindered. You can of course refrain from discussing these aspects of your work that you think should be closely guarded, but in my estimation, you stand to gain more in stature and commercially by discussing ideas without giving away specifics.

Look at Peter's "XXHighend pc."  I now realise that I was an unrepentant idiot not to just buy it from him, as many here advised. His pc is however easy to replicate because he was so open with absolutely everything that went into it. My circumstances are slightly different as I got myself in a situation where I had some parts , and processors which I did not know were incompatible with his older generation motherboard. And with all due respect to Peter, I think that eventually he will revisit his "XXHighend PC" and upgrade some components to give people an upgrade path...at least that's what I think.

I personally think that, even with my limited understanding of such matters, and not knowing the personal aspects of your dealings with Peter, that both you and Peter stand to gain by having your Chronos PC openly discussed here. Peter's business is likely to gain as even more people interested in your solution might consider the Phasure Dac as a result. Rather than see your pc competing with Peter's, one might regard them, in crude economic parlance, complementary goods.

In short, I do not like this cold war atmosphere of hiding in the shadows, meeting under bridges and using cypher to communicate. I find mysteries tiresome and repellent especially in a hobby such as ours where we can move away from the politics that often engage us in our professional lives and be clear and honest with each other.

I will approach you privately as I might use some help with my project and I will get it wherever it is available for sure, and within my means. I will not however become part of some sort of  conspiracy and as long as I am free to communicate about whatever I learn from you, I would be very happy to do so. I do not want to be hindered as the reason I understand as much as I do is because a large number of people here have been very open about their own experiments and results, good or bad, and I read and learnt from these. You yourself have clearly benefited from that in  your travails. If you do decide that this does not suit any disclosure requirements that you might have in mind, then I am sure I will still manage.

One last thing. I know you said you do not feel comfortable answering my questions. In my humble opinion, you should reconsider. No business that I know has ever been able to survive and thrive without at least stating what its goods or services sell for, and what it is that they do...Just a thought.

I sincerely wish you all the best in your new venture and if I can make use of your help for a fee, even better.

Best regards
Rakesh

[PeterSt]

Rakesh, I can't agree more with all you said.

And worse :

I guess you think that I am joking or something when I ask you to lay out what this is (technically) all about. I did that before and did that twice yesterday. Questions from others also remain unanswered and - just saying - might you prefer to deal with that by PM only, that this is behind my back and the worse.

[...]
it really is your turn now. Said the same yesterday but maybe you now trust my honesty on this ?

Nick, this is over two months old now. And AGAIN no response. Again twisting and bending. You don't make friends with this ...

Answer Rakesh's  questions, please. And in here - not by PM. And I don't like to ask it one more time.

Peter

[acg]

Rakesh, I can't agree more with all you said.

And worse :

I guess you think that I am joking or something when I ask you to lay out what this is (technically) all about. I did that before and did that twice yesterday. Questions from others also remain unanswered and - just saying - might you prefer to deal with that by PM only, that this is behind my back and the worse.

[...]
it really is your turn now. Said the same yesterday but maybe you now trust my honesty on this ?

Nick, this is over two months old now. And AGAIN no response. Again twisting and bending. You don't make friends with this ...

Answer Rakesh's  questions, please. And in here - not by PM. And I don't like to ask it one more time.

Peter

Peter, forgiving how ridiculous they can be but sometimes I think you need a like button on this site.  I would "like" both yours and Rakesh's posts.  If it ain't open and transparent on this site then it may as well be voodoo.  So please Nick, speak up.

Anthony

[PeterSt]

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