Clairixa USB

[Dantana]

Since NOS 1a does not require the USB 5V power, would it be possible to have the Clairixa be without the power leg? Will this further improve on the SQ?

Whoops, never saw this post ! (thank you Joachim)
Sorry !

This must be considered not possible (well, what is impossible);
The NOS1(a) officially uses the 5V for ESD protection and besides it is a general appliance (meaning : not dedicated for the NOS1(a) at all). But what I'm more afraid of is that while finding this good means of normal USB cable is already a pain, making that an uncommon application will be undoable.

What I can do though is when I am ready with this, make a next one with the power wires not connected at both ends and use that if nothing happened, and then watch for differences I may notice unconsciously.

...

Peter

Thanks Peter and Joachim.

  If I may pursue further, I see 2 possible options to implement split data and 5V connections for the NOS 1a with the Clairixa cable, without sacrificing on the ESD protection. But this is on the assumption that separating power from the data signals going into the DAC (instead of getiing them from a single USB cable) could provide even better sound quality.
 
  There are currently split data and power USB cables available and some here may have already tried them (eg. from Paul Pang, Acoustic Revive, Light Harmonic etc). But these eventually re-combined the data and power at the USB input connector of the DAC. From there into the USB interface, the 5V power signal will/may still be able to influence negatively, albeit at a much shorter length (maybe the effects are negligible).

  What I'm suggesting here is using Peter's Clairixa USB cable as it is, simply by blanking off the 5V contact legs on the respective ends of the cable's connectors. Once it is confirmed workable and effective, Peter may then build a specific data-only Clairixa USB cable, and a 5V power-only USB cable.

Option 1.
USB input #1 to have data-only from Clairixa USB cable,
USB input #2 to have 5V power-only USB cable for ESD protection.

  a.  There are currently 2 USB inputs on the NOS 1a. One of it we are using for connection from PC to NOS 1a with a standard USB cable (combined data and 5v power). The other USB input is not in use at the moment. Could we not use the second USB input to connect for ESD protection? I'm guessing there would be a need to modify the internal wiring slightly, from input #2 to ESD protection circuitry.

  b.  The USB input #2 could now be powered from external 5V battery or Linear PSU or simply from the second USB port of the Silverstone PCIe USB card. (Side advantage now is Peter can sell extra Clairixa cables for this 5V ESD protection.)


Option 2.
USB input #1 to have data-only from Clairixa USB cable.
The 5V ESD protection to come from within NOS 1a.

 c. Again, this would need some modifications as new super regulators would be needed to generate the 5V power and a separate cable from the regulated supply to the ESD protection circuitry. But this option, if workable, should give better SQ since Peter's mil-spec super-regulators are definitely better than existing battery or Linear PSU or from Silverstone USB. Moreover, there will be less external connections making it neater looking.

  I'm not a technical expert. Please pardon my simplistic view. The difficult part I see here is for current owners to carry out the modifications required to re-wire the ESD protection.

  Or maybe it is totally un-workable. Just thinking aloud.

Thanks and best regards.

Daniel

[PeterSt]

Hi there Daniel,

Let me first "admit" that it could not be the best idea to improve on something which is unknown to begin with. So for example, I sometimes run into a new customer who right from the start wants better oscillators in his NOS1 and he doesn't even know what's in there and for sure not how it sounds.
How should I respond ?
So in this realm I respond to this. There is nothing to work with !!

But if I had to say something anyway ...
So far, all what I have seen from tests (by others) is that NOT having the power connected is for the worse. So say that the "topology" is changed and what comes from that I can't predict (until I try it myself of course and then still super dangerous because what happens in the normal situationSSS is quite well known by now).

Next thing could be that the ESD protection is a sort of self contained system. Think like the plugging (or unplugging) of the cable may cause ESD (think like a spark) and now the topology of the whole counter attacks that. Thus, take out half of the cable and move it to elsewhere (your separate USB connection for example) and nothing can be lead to anywhere. But to be honest ... a bit difficult to explain for me because I'm also not 100% knowledged here and often "we" apply the standard (advised) tricks. So if a datasheet tells to filter a leg of a chip with a 0.1uF capacitor, "we" just do that and don't doubt it. And if someone asks to not have in that capacitor, it suddenly requires deep thinking what the cap is for. The dataheet may not describe that.

This is all different from just using the cable without the 5V power. Just go ahead with that. Most probably nothing will break ever. And whether we don't solder the wires concerned, or whether you tape them, not much difference I'd say. Well, one difference is there : the 90 Ohm spec will not be met now. And oh, this is doubtful anyway, because I'd say this depends on the current draw through the power wires in there. And this depends on what the cable is used for.
So it is all a quite rough thing.

The difference will start really, when the wires concerned are not even in there. Now suddenly it requires the design of a new cable, unless some two-wire 90 Ohm topology exists already. Which it most probably will not, because who is going to use that ? OK, you and me, but ...

But (please) back to my real answer : What to do this for. Is something wrong ?

Best regards and thanks (!),
Peter

[christoffe]

See details about the YSF cable, the are omitting the power lead only.

http://yourfinalsystem.com/cable-design-f-a-q/147-how-do-data-only-usb-cables-work

What i can confirm is, that with the data only cable the "air" around the instruments is gone (with boxed speakers). Using the standard USB cable the "air" is back - more informations/details? More noise?.

The question for me is, what is right/correct? Mostly we are listening to music out of recording studios.

Joachim

[PeterSt]

The question for me is, what is right/correct? Mostly we are listening to music out of recording studios.

Joachim,

Yes, that is the good question. My own means for determining this seems fairly easy : all must be consistent. But of course this is an out of space job, because ALL needs to be "perfect" so to speak. So for example, if I would be using a random Weiss D/A converter, then I would see no single way to "test" a USB cable. And not to call a Weiss "bad", but nothing much in there is consistent in itself.

So the huge task (for us all) is how to start with something you can trust. Well, for me this turned out to be the NOS1 and obviously I represent many with this "statement" and *still* it turned out to be improvable quite a lot. But somehow that always became a start (was, and still does for me) so you could trust that when something went odd it is caused by whatever was changed.
If I look back I see many expressions from myself like "and thus now the software had to be improved" but just the same as in "the DAC now requires improvement first". And (your, Joachim) Interlinks. Now the USB Cable.

All is based upon this consistency and relative working from all the components in the whole. And from there it is, for me at least, now quite easy to listen to that YFS for 1 minute only and take it out forever. Again nothing about a "bad" YFS, but within the consistency of the remainder as how I have it, it is out of line largely.
That such a happening coincidentally encourages for improvement in that area (USB cable) while I actually was quite satisfied, is, well, coincidence. But I can assure you that if VJ hadn't been so kind to organize its tour that nothing would have happened in this realm. Or at least not yet.

And what is next ? Well, I can tell you ... the digital filtering again. So say that again a better component was added (Clairixa) which, because good in itself, now shows better the INconsistency of the remainder ... it now shows again that basic Arc Prediction possibly is not the better one. No no, don't try it again when you already did earlier (like I did that myself) because you first need this cable to show the real difference.

Are we in circles ? maybe. But the circles get smaller and smaller.
Regards,
Peter

[christoffe]

because you first need this cable to show the real difference.

Ok,

put me on the list for a 1m cable, normal A to normal B, please.

Joachim

Edit:  Changed the standard USB cable after one week back to the YFS cable today. In my system the YFS cable has much more details and “punch” etc. in the various listening positions, such as our “favourite toilet”, PC working place  and at the near field location.

[PeterSt]

Hey Joachim, I thought you already were on the list ! Well, sort of assumed that. Sorry for the implied "proposition". It sure wasn't meant to be that.

Regards,
Peter

[PeterSt]

Hi you first 10 guys ...

First off, thank you all for paying so quickly - some within minutes !

I just finished testing the first 7 cables which are ready now and I can tell that we will not be able to ship out all the 10 today (deadline in 15 minutes). So I decided to ship all 10 upcoming Monday.

Something else is that from the 20 meters of cable I ordered for trial, only 20cm is left (for the 10 of them) ! I never took into account that we could run short for the 10, so it is a bit of luck that it worked out; would have been quite embarrassing when not.

I will wait a little with ordering for the next batch so it can better match the further needs. Of course this also will depend on how much you first 10 will be doing. And I sure hope you will because I am still doing so myself, and if you don't, I feel like stealing.

Enjoy your weekend !
Peter

[juanpmar]

Hi you first 10 guys ...

I will wait a little with ordering for the next batch so it can better match the further needs. Of course this also will depend on how much you first 10 will be doing. And I sure hope you will because I am still doing so myself, and if you don't, I feel like stealing.

Enjoy your weekend !
Peter

Hey Peter, be quiet, we´ll try to judge it generously hehe

Nah, seriously, thanks for shipping it so quickly

Juan

[boleary]

One meter for me too. Thanks!

[AlainGr]

Hi you first 10 guys ...

First off, thank you all for paying so quickly - some within minutes !

I just finished testing the first 7 cables which are ready now and I can tell that we will not be able to ship out all the 10 today (deadline in 15 minutes). So I decided to ship all 10 upcoming Monday.

Something else is that from the 20 meters of cable I ordered for trial, only 20cm is left (for the 10 of them) ! I never took into account that we could run short for the 10, so it is a bit of luck that it worked out; would have been quite embarrassing when not.

I will wait a little with ordering for the next batch so it can better match the further needs. Of course this also will depend on how much you first 10 will be doing. And I sure hope you will because I am still doing so myself, and if you don't, I feel like stealing.

Enjoy your weekend !
Peter

Hi Peter,

I did not see this post until today...

I certainly am unable to relate you and the word "stealing" in the same sentence. After all that you have conceived and wil all the qualifiers that we can think positively...

For me, PeterSt and St-Peter are quite the same

Kind regards,

Alain

[manisandher]

My Clairixa USB cables (3.5m and 0.5m lengths) have just been delivered. I won't get a chance to listen to them until later today but will report back my thoughts as soon as I do.

Mani.

[PeterSt]

Oh ... Mani, I completely forgot ... All cables have been tested except for your 0.5m. It was too short !
I wanted to put a note in the box, but forgot ...

Peter

[AlainGr]

Oh ... Mani, I completely forgot ... All cables have been tested except for your 0.5m. It was too short !
I wanted to put a note in the box, but forgot ...

Peter

Do you mean that the signal could arrive at the other end before it is sent ?

Alain

[christoffe]

 

Do you mean that the signal could arrive at the other end before it is sent ?

Alain

 

[juanpmar]

Clairixa received! Thanks, Peter

Juan