Network storage

[AlainGr]

I was wondering... Is the Windows firewall necessary ? I thought that a router already has its own firewall ?

Alain

[manisandher]

PS. Call me completely crazy, but has the SQ improved? Must be imagining it.

No, I wasn't imagining it... or at least not totally. The sound definitely changed, but not necessarily for the better. It was sharper and more edgy than earlier. But nothing to do with the new music server - just me forgetting to set Q5 back from 0 to 1.

Lesson? If you feel your sound is a tad too sharp, check your Q5.

Mani.

[manisandher]

I was wondering... Is the Windows firewall necessary ? I thought that a router already has its own firewall ?

I'm not sure what the best advice is, but feel that as long as performance isn't being affected (too much), why not have extra security? But having said that, I never use any virus protection programs (but happy to leave Defender on nowadays for my work PC and work laptop).

Mani.

[manisandher]

PS. Call me completely crazy, but has the SQ improved? Must be imagining it.

No, I wasn't imagining it... or at least not totally. The sound definitely changed, but not necessarily for the better. It was sharper and more edgy than earlier. But nothing to do with the new music server - just me forgetting to set Q5 back from 0 to 1.

Nah... I was right in the first place! (For sure, Q5 makes a difference, but not to the extent that I'm hearing.) With a few days of intensive listening, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the SQ has taken a massive leap forward with the new music server. I'd say the improvement is close to that of the RAM-OS!

OK, so what exactly is going on? I remember a few years ago now trying HQPlayer's 'Network Audio Adapter' and finding that the sound changed depending on whether the music was stored on the player PC's HDD or on an external Synology NAS via a network switch. I just couldn't understand why. Jusssi (HQP developer) seemed to dismiss the possibility that the sound could have changed at all. But now, thinking about it, I think I was hearing the affect of noise coming through the LAN to the DAC via the NAA.

My current thinking is veering towards the network switch as being the culprit. I mean, there are all those 'high-speed' digital connections that the switch has to contend with. The noise must be high. Of course, ethernet connections are galvanically isolated by design, but this has nothing to do with stopping noise getting through (something I think a lot of people don't understand). The 'digital die-hards' will tell you that noise in a digital system doesn't matter - that's the whole beauty of digital. But they don't know how digital music works - if the noise finds its way through to the DAC, it will produce jitter, which will kill the sound.

Soooooooo... we've now got to not only contend with the USB connection from the audio-PC to the DAC, but also the bloody ethernet connection into the audio-PC. Isn't this hobby just wonderful?

On the bright side, I now have the best sound in my room that I have ever heard... anywhere 

Mani.

[juanpmar]

My current thinking is veering towards the network switch as being the culprit. I mean, there are all those 'high-speed' digital connections that the switch has to contend with. The noise must be high. Of course, ethernet connections are galvanically isolated by design, but this has nothing to do with stopping noise getting through (something I think a lot of people don't understand). The 'digital die-hards' will tell you that noise in a digital system doesn't matter - that's the whole beauty of digital. But they don't know how digital music works - if the noise finds its way through to the DAC, it will produce jitter, which will kill the sound.

Mani.

Coincidentally today I removed the switch that was between the Music and Audio Pc. It seems to be a slight improvement in SQ with less edgy sound in general. It appears also that the transfer rate is similar to the one  with the switch. So now the switch is out and the connection between the two computers is made through a direct cable. Peter was right and it seems that the speed does not increase with the switch, at least it isn't perceptible with only one Ethernet cable of 3m length.

Regards
Juan

[manisandher]

It seems to be a slight improvement in SQ with less edgy sound in general.

Hi Juan, in your previous setup did you have a lot of other devices connected to the switch at the same time? I suspect this is where most of the improvement (decrease in noise) would come from.

I have to say, I still can't quite get my head around the level of improvement over here. Certainly, I'd urge everyone to go for a direct connection between the music-PC and the audio-PC. No problem if you only have one ethernet port on your music-PC mobo - just buy a PCIe card.

Mani.

[Arjan]

Hi,
Because I also found this improvements in SQ because of the music server. That supprised me, therefor I also added a network isolator in the lan connection. A network isolator med MI 1005 (100 euro).

Someone else made this suggestion in this forum! And to my ears it helps, more rest and details in the highs.

So even on the lan side improvements are possible.
Regards, Arjan

[juanpmar]

It seems to be a slight improvement in SQ with less edgy sound in general.

Hi Juan, in your previous setup did you have a lot of other devices connected to the switch at the same time? I suspect this is where most of the improvement (decrease in noise) would come from.
Mani.

Hi Mani, I was using the switch with the only intention of making the transference of data faster and more stable between the Music Pc and the Audio Pc. I haven't had any device connected to the switch, it was just in the middle of two Ethernet cables. My music is in a dock connected with a USB 3.0 cable to the Music Pc. That I didn't had other devices connected to the switch is probably the reason I could not hear a greater improvement in SQ.

Regards,
Juan

[BertD]

Does anyone have a visual presentation of the connecting PC's? Too many sorts of connections possible and reading the text makes me dizzy trying to implement something similar for my situation...

If I connect my Music PC directly to my main PC (crosslink) is it then possible to control the Music PC from the main PC as well?

The music is stored on my NAS but can be found from the main PC directly as if it is stored locally.

If possible then I can connect wireless to the main PC and control the Music PC through the main PC (RDP) too which would be both options I want to be able to use.

This way I only need a crosslink cable or a clever adapter to change the path and remove the Music PC from the switch.

Wishful thinking?

Bert

[acg]

Hi Bert,

The cross link cable is an artefact of times past...you can direct connect computers these days with a normal Ethernet cable.

If I connect my Music PC directly to my main PC (crosslink) is it then possible to control the Music PC from the main PC as well?

The music is stored on my NAS but can be found from the main PC directly as if it is stored locally.

Yes, the AudioPC (I am using Peters terms) can be controlled from the Music Server via RDP.  You should be able to remove the graphics card and keyboard and mouse and other unnecessary stuff from the AudioPC.

If possible then I can connect wireless to the main PC and control the Music PC through the main PC (RDP) too which would be both options I want to be able to use.

Yep.  Tablet. >> RDP >> Music Server >> RDP >> AudioPC.

Hope this helps,

Anthony

[manisandher]

Yep.  Tablet. >> RDP >> Music Server >> RDP >> AudioPC.

This is how I have things set up (replace tablet with laptop). It works really, really well.

Mani.

[PeterSt]

Bert,

Anthony is right. Do not make your own terms up here, because the first who does not understand is you yourself.
Next, we can not help you either.

There is a Music Server PC which holds the music (one way or the other).
There is an Audio PC which produces the sound (the DAC is connected to that).

Anthony talked in those terms, so you should be able to follow him (now).

Additionally :

What some want (for reasons) is controlling the Music Server PC via the tablet as well. This is only confusing as you'll have that automatically (intrinsically). But you don't want / need that - same as my situation. When we both need maintenance on the Music Server PC, we just walk to its screen. Now, relative to that situation (expplicitly referring to your situation) :

Let the Music Server PC screen be as it is (you are playing audio with it).
Now set up the RDP connection from the tablet to that screen. That is really all ...
If you have it running you will see that it is too simple to explain. But it is hard to explain.
haha

Peter

[AlainGr]

Just for my curiosity... Is RDP the same as RDC ? I know RDC to mean "Remote Desktop Connection", but for RDP ?

Thanks

Alain

[PeterSt]

Alain,

Microsoft is trying to make us mad.

In the early days we had Hydra. Hydra was the beta version of RDP - Remote Desktop Protocol. Oh ... let me tell you that I have started all this idiocy with a bunch of Japanese. So Hydra was sort of mine (when MS had taken over).

Not really long ago, this remote connection stuff was called RDP. That is, I'm fairly sure. Possibly on XP it was still named like that.
It ?
It = what today is called RDC. Remote Desktop Connection.

Then came RDC for Android and Mac and it was named ...
RDP.
Most probably this is because it is more explicitly a protocol as such, when viewed from the different OS (than Windows).

Wonder oh wonder that only the other day I saw that now it is called RD - Remote Desktop. That is, on the Mac I saw that.

Now watch out :
Today we have Windows 10. Desktop is sort of back, while Windows 8(.0) tried to elminate that. But it will be eliminated again in the future (well, I suppose and for my today's fun).
So what will RDC be named in the future ?

R

[AlainGr]

That has been my complaint about MS different versions of Windows... I remember trying to find the "Add/Suppress" in Control Panel, to discover that it was not called "Programs and Features" (when I switched from XP to Win 7)... This is just an example of the situations that many encounter with each new version.

My mother-in-law that I find extraordinary for working with Windows is in a part of her life where changing from Windows 7 to either Win 8 or 10 would be a show stopper... And they tell us that the new versions are more intuitive...

For me it looks more like marketing bull than anything else...



Alain