Best Vinyl Rig

[christoffe]

Joachim ... sometimes I am sure you are not reading the forum ...
If I had made it in October then you would have had everything wrong. Missed that 4 times if not more ??

But I am going to make a few today - yours too if all is right.

Peter

Hi Peter,

don't be so serious, it was a joke!!!

Joachim

[PeterSt]

Oh ... then I better apologise !
grrr
haha - you got me there !

Best regards,
Peter

[KnB]

Hi Mani, very interesting.
Downloaded the CD version today for comparison.
For me the CD sounds better, its really a large difference. CD have more bass and more hight and details, more life to it.
Thank you for the download!

[GerardA]

How about this?
www.youtube.com/embed/xH8I0LUjrqw

[PeterSt]

Gerard, you forgot an H.

Seems like an expensive advertising campain to me (scrolled a bit through it without sound).

Regards,
Peter

[GerardA]

Yeah, sounds too good to be true, digital sounding like analog!
Wonder if it is just HighRes...
If not I'm sure you can make something like it.

[christoffe]

Hi,

since a longer time I was curious to compare the SQ  between my analogue chain with the “digital” SQ .  My turntable was not connected to the  speakers since 2011, because the location of the EMT 950 is 10 m away from the power amp. So I ordered  a pair of 10m 50Ohm “Aircom plus” coax cables  with BNC connectors and  BNC/RCA adapters 4 weeks ago and off it goes with records I have on vinyl’s and CD’s (some recordings from  the same master band).
 
The analogue chain/route is an EMT 950 turntable with a TSD 15 cartridge, Valhalla XLR/RCA cable from the EMT to a Burmester 877 MkII preamp and continuing from there with the “Aircom plus” cable to the power amp (same connection as used with the NOS1a).

This analogue SQ is incredible, at least on par with the “digital chain”. What I hear in my room is, the SQ of the analogue chain is slightly  better than ...... , and the SQ remembers me to the “digital” sound with the YFS USB Reference cable.
It’s difficult to explain, to find the right explanation/words, in comparison to the “analogue SQ” the 1$ USB cable creates noise/distortion (in my opinion).

The analogue SQ in the “toilet” is great, no big difference to SQ of the digital chain.

This topic is “Best Vinyl Rig” and To counteract Peter's reservation against LP's the “turntable vendors” out there should compare their "expensive" products with “real turntables” sometimes.
 
Joachim

[manisandher]

Hey Joachim, there must be something in the air. I too connected my turntable to my main system over the weekend (see pic), mainly to enjoy my 50s and 60s original pressings that, for whatever reason, seem to sound so good. And just like you Joachim, I too really, really like the sound of my TT. I wouldn't go as far as saying that it is on par with the NOS1a, but I agree that there is a certain something about the sound that is very nice. Also, I really enjoyed engaging with the vinyl format again - you know, the whole rigmarole of choosing an album, placing it, giving it a clean beforehand and... then just relaxing until the whole side has finished.

My vinyl rig is far from optimally set up right now, so I've decided that I'm going to invest a bit of time and money to improve this. The first step will be to buy a SOTA phono preamp. I've opted for a Thöress Phono Enhancer, which I will place an order for later this week. I'm then hoping the designer, Reinhard Thöress, will help me get the rest of my vinyl rig optimally set up.

But one thing I am not going to do is take the NOS1a through the preamp. Instead, I will physically switch the cables to the Orelo speakers, between the NOS1a and the phono preamp, whenever I want to switch sources. It sounds a PITA, but I suspect that I won't be doing it too often, as I'll only be listening to vinyl once a week or so.

The analogue chain/route is an EMT 950 turntable with a TSD 15 cartridge, Valhalla XLR/RCA cable from the EMT to a Burmester 877 MkII preamp and continuing from there with the “Aircom plus” cable to the power amp (same connection as used with the NOS1a).

Very nice! Interestingly, a few years ago I was in the hunt for an EMT 927. I contacted one of the guys who used to work at EMT and he insisted that I should buy a 950 instead. He said it was technically a better TT and that at today's prices it was a bargain compared to the crazily priced 927. I didn't take his advice though (I didn't buy a 950 or a 927)... perhaps I should have?

Cheers, Mani.

[christoffe]

I've opted for a Thöress Phono Enhancer, which I will place an order for later this week. I'm then hoping the designer, Reinhard Thöress, will help me get the rest of my vinyl rig optimally set up.

Cheers, Mani.

Hi Mani,

Great/nice picture of the speakers/TT. 
You are ordering the Phono Enhancer with 75Ohm BNC outlets for a Blaxius cable!?   The sound with the BNC coax cable (pre amp to power amp) is great on my system.

A relocation of the TT is due to (air) resonances to a place near your listening position to be preferred. The tonearm is very sensitive to resonances.
Fortunately I had the chance to locate the TT in an adjacent room, but now the 10m BNC coax cable is crossing our living room and I have to repack the cable when my wife is not working always.

Joachim

[christoffe]

I didn't take his advice though (I didn't buy a 950 or a 927)... perhaps I should have?

Hi Mani,

these EMT's are ultimate TT machines because everything is  made inhouse and tuned for perfect interactions.  (no resonances between the different components such as tonearm, cartridge, chassis, suspension, e-motor etc.)

There are 950er on Ebay for < € 6000,00 sometimes and the Fabritius cards (http://www.fabtech.de/en_own-products_f2.html) are mandatory for audiophiles.

Joachim

[christoffe]

Hi,

vinyl SQ beats CD rip by a “lightyear” on the “Take Five”  track from Dave  Brubeck on this CD:

http://www.amazon.com/Time-Out-Dave-Brubeck-Quartet/dp/B000002AGN/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1425061499&sr=1-1&keywords=dave+brubeck (acc. to the booklet this CD is no remastering)

The vinyl version I listened to is on this LP:

http://www.amazon.com/Dave-Brubecks-Greatest-Hits-Brubeck/dp/B003XX2P9A/ref=tmm_vnl_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=1-3&qid=1425061499

Anyone has the chance to compare?  You will be surprised what you do not hear on the CD.
---------------------------------------
If my assumption/guess will be confirmed with other LP’S then most of  the ”analogue to digital” conversions from the ”master tapes” are for the trash. At present I’m listening to the  Miles Davis vinyl “Sketches of Spain” and the vinyl SQ confirms the trend.

Details about the differences later.

Joachim

EDIT: BNC coax cables are working in an analogue chain amazingly too!

[PeterSt]

Hi Joachim,

Maybe you recall that many years ago we were testing the means of digitising Take Five. "We" = Mani and I looked in the files and listened to it. But as I recall this was not really about a comparison with the (a) CD version.
Point is : I still should have those but I can't find them.

Maybe Mani still has them, but then he must have registered thoroughly which was which version.

So, curious ...
Peter

[manisandher]

Hey, I still have them somewhere... can try to dig them out. But I don't think I had my vinyl setup very well optimized back then. And also I will readily admit that I NEVER managed to capture the full glory of vinyl on digital. It's not the ADC that was at fault per se, but the method of capturing the ADC output onto a storage device. Everything I tried for years failed. Some of the results were good, but never anywhere near the original vinyl. Anyway, I've now given up making needle drops for a while. If I want to hear my old 50s and 60s vinyl I just play it straight. And I have to say I love the sound - maybe not as accurate as digital, but very nice nevertheless.

I agree with Joachim 100% though - my 45rpm vinyl of Time Out trounces the 1997 Mark Wilder HDCD release in SQ. But I think a lot of this is down to the awful mixing on the HDCD - the alto sax is waaay too hot. Mark did exactly the same thing on the 1997 Kind of Blue CD release with the trumpet and saxs way too hot. He sort of admitted this when the 24/192 KOB was released recently. This has a much better balance, more in line with the original vinyl.

Mani.

[PeterSt]

Let me sort of admit something :

When I was going to listen to this "Fever" track from Elvis a few days ago, I told I played Take Five in advance of it. Well, somewhere into the 2 minutes I shut it off. I didn't hear anything from what I was used to, that 4 years or so ago when comparing these "recording means" from Mani.

I must add that this track (but the Fever track no different) contained way too much of digital headroom. I didn't really sort it out, but my senses told be that it could be way over a half of lost "dynamics". So Fever track was nothing much, but Take Five was also nothing much.
And on the latter I don't recall that at all from playing it a 100 times, 4 years ago ...

Peter

[christoffe]

Hi,

I just made the experience that during our march improving the SQ of the music we have no reference point. There is no starting point/ fall back for a comparison. We are going ahead and do not know if we are on the right track.

Listening to old records on my vinyl rig I have to say, the digital chain has to struggle very hard to catch up with the vinyl sound. The vinyl sound creates a real powerful 3D image of the soundstage, it is a wall of sound. The whole area around the speakers is “energized”, full of music, you hear the depth of the recording room.

The sound of the digital releases of the LP’s (Return To Forever, Dave Brubeck,  Elvis Presley, Chick Corea) has no energy,  is flat with a small 3D image, (with vinyl the room depth is 5m, with digital 2m only) nothing sparkles.

On the vinyl “Take five” track you hear the drums, especially the cymbals and snare drum all over as one of the major instrument beside the piano. On the CD version the drums are playing behind a big curtain, all the magic of the amazing drums is gone.
 
The SQ of the “DDD” CD’s  have a nice 3D image of the soundstage, but has not the magic of the vinyl energy and “5m thick wall of sound” image.

My opinion is:

-   The SQ of the “old” digitized LP’s is not on par with the present new digital releases in “DDD”, and years behind the original vinyl sound.
-   I’m wondering about the missing energy (with the 1$USB cable) of the “DDD” CD’s compared to vinyl. Is the omitted preamp the reason?

Now folks, fire back.

Joachim