YFS USB cable tour

[christoffe]

Audio ...

Hi Peter,

Yes, sometimes weird results are "evaporating", even during the day with different loads within the "public power lines" in our area (my suspicion).

After your comment about the YFS cable I fumbled with the XXH settings by increasing SFS up to 2MB and the driver USB buffer size up to 8ms, and I got a smoother sound with more ambience.

Joachim

[PeterSt]

YFS participants ...

What actually happened that we don't see reports any more ? Mani spitted out something by a sort of accident as it seems, but meanwhile it has been there, apparently.

Stanley, you had a sort of second round but we never heard anything of that ?
(The) Others ?

Peter

[PeterSt]

Anyways what got me excited was the gain in SNR .... Might seem strange when there is so much distortion, but just generally, proper cable matching will result in at least 6dB gain in SNR. That is just with USB.

VJ (and all), I tend to agree with this. But it won't be about SNR literally. But for sure something which feels like that. I think we generally can describe it as "hash". But in the end it is about how foremost the high frequencies can remain separated as they are (ahum, ?) or are smeared into a hash. Roughly this is "digital" to begin with, but the USB cable for sure can imply it, or be better at it.

I too talked about 6dB at least and what I notice of it is that the 6dB more expresses in the highs (measurable I mean). But it is a strange upside down thing. So what happens over here ?
When the cable seems "correct" my volume is that 6dB etc. higher and I don't really notice it. What I do notice though is the louder highs. This is strange because it would be the first reason to turn down the volume (we may not like these loud highs ... when bad !). So if I now measure the SPL, all plays normally at my sort of common 90dBSPL. One difference : when a cymbal hits or a woman voice sings, that now excurs to 96dB.

Yes, read it again.

So what seems to happen (when the perceived better is in order) is that the LOWER frequencies (but say all under maybe 2-3 KHz) get less square but read : exhibit less of that hash, which allows the volume to be 6dB or so higher, while at the highest frequencies (say above 3KHz) nothing was wrong to begin with, this also doesn't get "attenuated" so to speak (which those lower frequencies do) and now the higher frequencies jump out and in good fashion. However, very dangerous because those higher frequencies *really* have to be in good fashion, or else the whole thing turns itself against you.

To be somewhat more emphasizing so you'll understand :
I very regularly measure the SPL from the speaker (think 2-3 times per days always), when certain music plays and I wonder. I always do that for the woofer section vs. the mid-high horn. If you pay attention to when to do that hence that both sections should be in fair balance, then after doing this 100s and 100s of times you will have learned how the relation is (and when to do it to have the relation equal(ly loud). So, this has always been the case and for the general music this is still so. However, the general music will contain cymbal hits and previously they could be disregarded (hardly let rise the SPL from the mid-high horn). This now changed. So think I'm always holding the meter for a second or 5-7 in front of the horn and then I have the general idea about the SPL. Today (with the Clairixa USB cable) that doesn't work well anymore, because in those 5-7 seconds almost always cymbals hit and the needle goes to 96dB because of that.

Peter

[Stanray]

Stanley, you had a sort of second round but we never heard anything of that ?

Peter

No second round with the YFS happened.

When the NOS1 returned as "a" - "75B" I passed the YFS to the next in line because I had the YFS for quite some time already.

Stanley

[manisandher]

I'm going to put the YFS back in and 'force' myself to live with it until I get the Clairixa. Will report back with more impressions at a later date.

Mani.

[christoffe]

Anyways what got me excited was the gain in SNR .... Might seem strange when there is so much distortion, but just generally, proper cable matching will result in at least 6dB gain in SNR. That is just with USB.

VJ (and all), I tend to agree with this. But it won't be about SNR literally. But for sure something which feels like that. I think we generally can describe it as "hash". But in the end it is about how foremost the high frequencies can remain separated as they are (ahum, ?) or are smeared into a hash. Roughly this is "digital" to begin with, but the USB cable for sure can imply it, or be better at it.

Hi,
in other words, the noise floor is much lower and then other qualities in the audio chain are "suspect". In my opinion -amplification with a high resolution.

Joachim

[PeterSt]

Joachim,

We can't speak of a noise floor of a USB cable. I mean, there can be more or less noise implied by it, but this analogue noise is not able to smear or separate the high frequencies. This is because it is a digital signal and no audio wave form as such travels in that cable. Only "random" 1's and 0's, the 1's being a voltage of 3 or whatever and the 0's being a voltage of 0.2 etc.

So the whole phenomenon of SNR is not in order. Only if it implies a hammering via the (mains) backdoor on to the DAC and/or amplifier but then still there will be no single relation to the audio wave form.
And otherwise, of course, it can imply more or less jitter, be that via the back door (mains -> PSU) into the DAC or be that directly via the interface (which theoretically can not exist because of the isolation).

Regards,
Peter

[vrao]

Peter,
I think you explained the phenomenon in one of your earlier post very very well!
The increased SNR was my initial impression!
What this cable is doing to the "all Phasure" setup is adding higher odd order harmonics, which are cues for loudness. So this gives the apparent sensation of increased dynamics, that is why you were listening to the cable 6db below what you are on the Clarixia. Therefore the apparent increase in SNR, when details shout out. Took me a while to get this figured out,  ..... I.e.10 hrs

With lower distortion you should be able to listen louder without you ears telling you it's such!!

Regards,
VJ

[christoffe]

Honestly I felt it might have to do with grounding! Who knows?!

Might be a good guess/hint!

see:

http://www.analog.com/library/analogDialogue/archives/46-06/staying_well_grounded.html

Joachim

[vrao]

Well,
It's been a few months since I auditioned the YFS cable, and most is from memory. Keeping things in timeline perspective is difficult. Few other USB cables have come across b/w then and now. The cable tour took way longer that originally planned. Overall intent was for all to know USB makes a easily noticeable difference, and to see its performance with different setups.
What I remember was that the sound was "wow" initially, totally 3D, and on listening longer, I.e. More than an hour or so continuously, the sound would change, with harshness and collapse of the sound stage. Then totally unbearable. So I thought about Di-electric relaxation.
Experiences so far indicate this cable has a hard time integrating with high efficiency horn speakers. Horns avoid a bunch of distortion a inherent in dynamic come drivers (not that it's doesn't have in own issues). Tube act like filters to a certain degree. Something along the audio chain is either reducing or counteracting the distortion in some setups, or the issue may not even exit elsewhere.

The possibility of the amps not being fast enough though I think is a bit off. The slew rate is somewhat of a hyperbole, just another indicator of the amplifiers band width. The slew rate if I remember right for amps in the Oreleos are more than adequate for audio reproduction as Hi-Fi. Oreleos have the best thought out configuration with individual amplifiers for separate channels, therefore reducing the load per driver during peak demand. Just as a side note here, the amplifiers power rating is for reproducing a particular note, power goes down to more than half if another note is added. How about music huh with complex notes ..? 
**edit**: That is why amplifiers sound different. They are clipping at one point or another. Technically speaking, if operated well within their power rating, all amps should sound exactly the same. This again brings in the point that TDH is just a small part of the equation. There are a few other related factors, but this is good for now.

VJ

[christoffe]

Anyways what got me excited was the gain in SNR .... Might seem strange when there is so much distortion, but just generally, proper cable matching will result in at least 6dB gain in SNR. That is just with USB

Regards,
VJ

Hi,

I do not hear on my system with "NO horns" the 6dB gain for the highs, and the tweeters are going up to 40KHz. There is a very balanced SQ with everything for the better (voices, drums, bass and guitar), except less air around the instruments in the listening position, but on the toilet/office the SQ is perfect.

Joachim

[vrao]

Johacim,

One explanation could be that the USB cable has no deleterious effect in your system.
Otherwise it could be related to grounding, some kind of filtering happening either at the speaker or crossover level.

VJ

[christoffe]

Hi,

at present I'm using for comparisons (Vinyl versus CD rips) the vinyl rig too, and when the turntable is my reference, the YFS USB (data only) cable with "no ambience" sounds not right. The SQ of the $1 USB cable is then nearer to the vinyl sound.

Joachim