YFS USB cable tour

[christoffe]

Hi Peter,

I'm using the YFS Reference USB cable, and so we are comparing apples with oranges. I can't compare with the other "testers".

Joachim

EDIT: May I have a photo of your by-pack USB cable that I can dig it out. Thanx

[CoenP]

Thanks for the reactions, lets’s keep sharing and experimenting!

Now back to the topic: Round three for the YFS cable.

Yesterday night I revisited the YFS cable and used some different music. It may have to do with a little more break in or something electrical in my system but the sound was a little smoother and I had to revoke my (second) opinion about the bass. The bass is deep and as defined as Windows 7 will ever be able to go. I support the postings of today about this topic. Anyway it seems that the stock cable emphasizes the mid bass and that’s where the power and drive live, but the YFS has the edge on the frequency extremes.

Now the lack of coherence remained. This was clearly demonstrated by ‘Don’t give up’ from Peter Gabriel. Perfectly separated instruments pinned in the air but they seemed not to care about each other. The pom-pa-pa-pam bass line was totally dissected from the music and there was just no impression of Kate and Pete singing together, just two voices doing their thing.
Also here the mid bass leanness robbed the song of its usual power. How different this sounds with the stock cable is almost laughable.

When listening to music like this with the YFS cable it occurred to me that the cymbals and snaredrums are a little ‘dry’. I think this is because there is an emphasis on the transient, neglecting the aftermath or decaying echos and imho this is exactly the reason why it is lacking coherence. Decays and image size are much more apparent with the stock cable. This could be a break-in thing but I noticed it on many albums so it is definitely resulting from the cable.

Now hearing al this cleanness, broadbandness and dynamics, there is something to be desired with the stock cable. Maybe because of the modifications, maybe because it is so it could use a little more of that. Holistically I presently still prefer the stock cable because of the drive and musical coherence.

Caveat Emptor: the stuff I describe here is my honest -analytical- opinion about the cable within the limitations of my system. For some observations it is hard to discern which plays the greater part of the observation. So this is only very preliminary since only three of us have heard the cable in their systems.

As a closing remark voor today it is a very interesting experience that the 5V connection makes a difference as do the used materials. I would not have expected it to be of this importance in a data transport that terminates in a perfectly isolated receiver. Now that we can tune the sound somewhat with different USB cables is nice but not desirable, we should actually be trying to find a solution that stops/minimises the noise from creeping in at loopholes. It also raises the question why the cable does what it does. Does it filter out noise or does it just more transparently transport the signal which includes the better transport of noise (implying more noise)?

To be continued!

regards, Coen

[vrao]

Hi Coen,

What are your thought about the image size, size of the soundstage (i.e. classical), and the spectral balance when compared to the phasure cable?

regards,
VJ

[christoffe]

Now the lack of coherence remained. This was clearly demonstrated by ‘Don’t give up’ from Peter Gabriel. Perfectly separated instruments pinned in the air but they seemed not to care about each other.

Hi Coen,

You are writing amazing reviews!!   (Peter too)

Strange things are happening within Audio.

First, the YFS cable ist fast, VERY fast!!!

Coherence: During a test with the nickel plated BNC/RCA adapters I had the same impressions, but with the LINDY (gold plated) adapter coherence is back again! Strange, very strange, but that's the case on my system.

A good sample/test is the track 6 of the following CD.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Belvedere-Beady-Belle/dp/B0012K5PX4/ref=sr_1_8?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1416428654&sr=1-8&keywords=beady+belle

Let's see/read whats going on during this cable test??!!

Joachim

[vrao]

Guys,

Just a clarification.

This is the "Ref" Data USB cable on tour. Not the V4 as I originally mentioned.

Rgs
VJ

[CoenP]

What are your thought about the image size, size of the soundstage (i.e. classical), and the spectral balance when compared to the phasure cable?

Hi VJ,

I'm letting the cable play till tomorrow and we'll see what that brings.

For now:

Besides the traits I allready mentioned, I'm tempted to say that the YFS extends a little more beyond the speakers (width/height) and is a more detatched from them. I have to say depth is comparable but in both cases not on par with the best I remember. Please note that I have allways found it difficult to hear the illusion of depth in a stereo system even when it was obvious for others, maybe I'm not that impressed by the effect so far. No problems with depth IRL.

The stock cable presents everything quite a bit larger. The stage is therefore much more filled with sounds and music.

I'd say tonality is similar between cables with the YFS doing the loudness thing better and the stock cable presents tonality differences between recording a tad better.

Oh and tonight I specifically listened to the decay and it remains (too) short. During the tone there is richness but when it stops all vanishes very fast. This phenomenon is also typical for cables that need burn in...

Regards, Coen

[CoenP]

Hi Joachim,

I also encountered this effect during the tuning of my diy amplifiers. I'm very sensitive to it and it can make or break usage of the component.

The worst I've ever heard this effect was with a couple of very expensive Cello amplifiers. You could almost walk around the instruments, but they sounded like being played by rocks. And let's not forget my win8 trauma wich is rooted in the same allergy.

Glad you warned me about the bnc adapters, because that was a similar experience.
 
Regards, Coen

[christoffe]

Guys,

Just a clarification.

This is the "Ref" Data USB cable on tour. Not the V4 as I originally mentioned.

Rgs
VJ

[PeterSt]

And let's not forget my win8 trauma wich is rooted in the same allergy.

Then I may have news for you Coen. But only because my memory seems to be OK for longer terms.

What I recall is that you are very subject to phase stuff. Uhm, *if* that was you indeed of course. So, don't have a problem at some normal distance, but feel the problem when closer by. Remember ?
Obviously this will have been so because of not precise speaker placement. At least that's what I think when this "problem" emerges.

But now think Windows 8 and its ever (more past) problems which everybody described as "phase problems" ...

Peter

[Stanray]

OK, my turn to say a few words about the YFS USB cable.

First a big thanks to VJ for organising this tour.

I collected the cable at Coen's personally, and so we were able to chat a little. From Coen’s description above and our chat I got an expectation or prejudice that this cable would not be my cup of tea, because I generally don’t like systems that have razor sharp images and very prominent  “individual instruments”, because that is not how I hear life music in acoustic spaces. It often is kind of clinical and lacks naturalness, tone and intergration. But I was wrong.

Remember, I have a different set up compared to Coen. The NOS1 is not yet “a” (but will be soon). My speakers are full range magnetostatics (not electrostatics!), so essentially I’m listening to aluminium foils with an 1 ohm impedance and therefore I'm convicted to large powerful amps.
 
I listened to various album, like Andy Narell (Slow Motion), Miles Davis (In a Silent Way), Tomasz Stanko (Lontano), Kraftwerk (the Mix), Gentle Giant (the Power and the Glory), Beethoven (String Quartets), Willy Deville (Miracle), Tool (10000 Days).

I agree with Coen that the YFS is detailed and reveals more information compared to the stock cable. The stereo image is wide and deep and it all sounds fresh and natural. I do understand Coen’s remark that “the super sharp focus to cause the soundstage to be incoherent like 'each instrument/sound on its own'”, but in my setup and in my perception this is a pro. Some rock albums from the seventies I only play in the car, because they tend to sound “overflowed” and messy, when the music becomes full, especially at high volumes. The YFS now gives “space” to the music it needs and suddenly those albums sound better in my living room. I even could listen to “ELP’s Pictures at an Exhibition, which I have not be listening to since the introduction of CD.
 
Furthermore I think that the low end performance is also better, maybe not a room resonating, sloppy bass, but a tight and well defined bass that I think is more real and involving.  All in all, I like this cable and it gives me a real and natural sound.

I’m very curious how it will sound on the NOS1a. If that can be arranged I will report on that.

To be continued . .
 
Stanley

[vrao]

Coen and Stan,

Thank you for the kind words. I would request anyone else in the EU interested in trying out the cable, sending me a PM. The cable is heading to Michael, (GR) and next to Mani(UK) otherwise.

Regards,
VJ

[michaeljeger]

Looking forward to get the cable to test.

Sent Stan my contact data.

Regards, Michael

[PeterSt]

So here an official report from someone who unofficially got hold of the YFS ...
Skip if you want to remain objective ...

I listened to various album, like Andy Narell (Slow Motion), Miles Davis (In a Silent Way), Tomasz Stanko (Lontano), Kraftwerk (the Mix), Gentle Giant (the Power and the Glory), Beethoven (String Quartets), Willy Deville (Miracle), Tool (10000 Days).

I agree with Coen that the YFS is detailed and reveals more information compared to the stock cable. The stereo image is wide and deep and it all sounds fresh and natural. I do understand Coen’s remark that “the super sharp focus to cause the soundstage to be incoherent like 'each instrument/sound on its own'”, but in my setup and in my perception this is a pro. Some rock albums from the seventies I only play in the car, because they tend to sound “overflowed” and messy, when the music becomes full, especially at high volumes. The YFS now gives “space” to the music it needs and suddenly those albums sound better in my living room. I even could listen to “ELP’s Pictures at an Exhibition, which I have not be listening to since the introduction of CD.
 
Furthermore I think that the low end performance is also better, maybe not a room resonating, sloppy bass, but a tight and well defined bass that I think is more real and involving.  All in all, I like this cable and it gives me a real and natural sound.

I’m very curious how it will sound on the NOS1a. If that can be arranged I will report on that.

Yeah, you got that right; This is Stanley's text. But you know, after I played the first 5 tracks of Allan Taylor - Leaving at Dawn, I went to the forum and looked what Stanley wrote about it, because it came to me that I had read very similar to my impressions after these 5 tracks and after reading it again I seriously thought to copy-paste his text with a small note under it from me : Exactly that.

I heard his guitar so super clear and precisely how I think metal strings from such a guitar should sound - and all futher what Stanley wrote that I thought : Okay, it is again Coen who is bothered by too much detail or so (his W8 vs W7 bugging).
But I'm afraid I must say this did not last long ...

Being in the mood, next up was some collection album from B.B. King. "See how the blues come trhough" was my thinking.
"Oh f*ck, that isn't the best recording" was my after 5 seonds thinking. But in the next 10 I was thrown a "this isn't B.B. King, right ?". My answer : it is, but it's an oldie. Maybe it is even mono (and I already shut it off).
Next, again with Stanley's post in mind, I thought to once again try the Machine Head "low high frequency" album; If Stanley is right, this one should work for the better. Let's have some Smoke on the Water.

Now my new audiophile collegue here was a pestering one (aren't we all ?") because now within 10 seconds I was asked whether this was Deep Purple for real. "Women in a bad mood" was all I could think at that moment. They never pick the music, and in a complaining mood they complain about everything. Bye.
But it sounded strange. Very strange. Hollow like. It is a bit in the first place, but now too much of it.
Okay, on to pestering Women from Tokyo from Made in Japan then.

Apparently no need to again complain from the woman with the bad mood, but this time it was me saying after thee minutes "doesn't this sound strange ?".
-> Told you !
Ah, oh.

Then with some test signal ambient sh*t music in the middle, I got the hunch of playing one which I played the night before and which suited me very well. Had to, because otherwise I couldn't find "it" in the other test signal music. That should dig out something ...

And then I thought - no, was sure to hear "no speed". No speed at all in the high frequency on/off synth sounds. OK if you don't know the track, but not OK at all if you know what "it can do".

So now I knew how to proove that : Safri Duo.
Safri Duo is all about very fast drums (like roto toms) and that too I played the night before. Yes, if something was slower than that would show it.

After 30 seconds this was my share (apart from me myself not liking it at all) :
-> Hey, what are those guys hitting today ? plastic buckets ?? All now sounds the same man !

There you go.

I must tell you, although this analysis lasted just less than an hour, at first I couldn't make sense of what really was going on. Highs are as crisp as Stanley described it (I mean, in a context I can easily understand, but Coen described it too), but I couldn't find what was actually lacking. Bass seemed better and such (and really all what Stanley described), but nothing worked. And even after I found that it is sheer speed lacking, I still could not make real sense out of the "not working" like with Deep Purple. And that in combination with Allan Taylor which I regarded no less than beautiful (this is also about the songs / lyrics and how it beautifully matched).

Just within 60 minutes I took out the cable because I regarded it a further waste of time. Back to the 1$ one.
Also back to Allan Taylor, and only then I could see it ...

There is so, so much more information in those same tracks that you don't even recognize it. But what happened in reality ? with the YFS there were three things playing only : the guitar, the voice and the slowly roaring bass guitar. Yes, all matched. All were as profound and beautiful. But with the 1$ cable there are a 100 sounds more and the first to disappear from the main scene are the guitar and the bass buitar. Ok, in all honesty, I think the bass guiter did less on its job of the deeper roaring with the 1$.

So 100 sounds more, and then to think that with the ambient test signal stuff I had in mind that this cable was the opposite of a black background, but I couldn't get consensus with myself about it. Really strange. (Allan Taylor changed from black background to the 100 sounds more)
Also really strange that the quite (nice !) sharp higher frequencies somehow do not contribute at all to the detail and speed. So the frequency of them must be elsewhere than that which implies the speed (dynamics). Say 8KHz where 2KHz is required; I don't know.

Before I knew it was about the lack of speed, I could not find any out of balance idea in my mind. What I did see all over though is some phase anomaly thing. And you know, ALL sounded nasal. First remark about this was B.B. King "beeping" as I was told. All I knew at that time was that indeed no B.B. King was singing. But later I found the nasal thing all over and of course I don't know how it can happen. Inside out hollow sound everywhere. And well, if that can be explained by a lack of speed, fine. But how the lack of speed emerges ?

Stupid stuff !!
Peter

[christoffe]

So here an official report from someone who unofficially got hold of the YFS ...
Skip if you want to remain objective ...


Stupid stuff !!
Peter

Hi,
now I do have problems!

A)
- Peters  impressions about the YFS cable in conjunction with the Blaxius can be confirmed.
- The disadvantage of the $1 UBS cable on my system is, the depth of the soundstage is not present.  A 2D image only, with the YFS a 3D soundstage is there (and nice voices), but  .... see Peters comment.

B)
- I exchanged the Blaxius with the “old” RG 223 and played with the YFS cable. The SQ is similar to A) with a $1 UBS cable, but with a 3D soundstage and a slight harshness in the voices.
- Replay with the “old” RG 223 and the $1 UBS cable. The 3D soundstage is gone and a slight harshness in the voices**is present** too.

At present the best compromise in my system is the YFS USB cable with the RG 223.

The “expedition” for the best USB cable with the Blaxius goes on.

Joachim

P.S. I wish you all a Merry Christmas and a lot of amazing music listening sessions.

[CoenP]

Hi,

I read Peter's post two times over and I can only remark that we have come to the same conclusion. That is somehow the YFS ' doesn't work' (like Peter Gabriel) and that there 100 things reappear with the 1$ cable. We have different reactions to them and different descriptions too. I.e. for me the latter brought fabric to the music again and an improvement in timing that makes, at my home, the music sound more like, eh, music.
I also noticed a more midrangy and less dynamic (hollow?) sound with the (modified) standard cable but took no offense in it.

Now I'm using/testing the bashed Supra cable with presents itself as quite the opposite of the YFS in bass slam and crystal clear highs. I have been spinning all genres and didn't get annoyed by any of it, with is good in itself. If anything I would consider this cable (also) to 'reduce speed' as an expense for a better tone and coherence. However I crave more attack from it. Mind you this is a 5V powered cable.

Before the Supra I've been playing with the 'custom' 'USB only' cable to no success. Though 'faster' sounding like the YFS it focuses too much on the attack leaving too little room for tone (harmonics, decay). I couldn't make out what percussion actually was played. Eventually I found it to sound messy too, as in mushing up crescendos.
Supra lets you discriminate the drums much better as they sound more like the real drum except for the fierceness of the attack when hit by the stick. I've been paying special attention to this in comparison with I a live concert of Manu Katche I attended last week. Though not through a recording chain, the instruments were processed and amplified during playback. Noteworthy to me was that it had all the traits that i think are important for good audio playback so these traits must be contained in the recording material somehow too. I more than once doubted if this were the case.

The USB story is far from over yet, but a pattern is already emerging!

regards, Coen