YFS USB cable tour

[vrao]

Hi,
A 1.0m cable will be shipped to NL soon, CoenP will be first to get it.
StanRay is next.
I would enourage anyone in NL interested to try it out during its tour there.
After that it will head to Juan, and then to UK (Mani)
Thanks,
VJ

[christoffe]

Hi,
A 1.0m cable will be shipped to NL soon, CoenP will be first to get it.
StanRay is next.
I would enourage anyone in NL interested to try it out during its tour there.
After that it will head to Juan, and then to UK (Mani)
Thanks,
VJ

Hi,

the tour is a very good idea

Joachim

[vrao]

Ok guys I need your help, for the best possible approach for this tour. I'm not familiar with the easiest transit b/w countries. First it is scheduled for NL. From there I need your input.
 
Here is the list by country, which will be updated with new entrants.

NL
CoenP
Stanray


Spain
Juan

Gr/Swiss
michaeljeger

UK
Mani

[PeterSt]

VJ,

If this is not first come first serve, then think something like this (I'll name countries with existing NOS1(a) customers only) :

From north to south (for the other way around start at the bottom ) :

- Finland
- Norway
- United Kingdom
- Netherlands
- Belgium
- Germany
- Austria
- Switzerland
- France (the one in here will never announce himself)
- Monaco
- Spain
- Hungary
- Serbia (there it will be lost, so good idea to have that as the last one).

All will do fairly well with normal mail and including a 500 euro ensurance count 20 euros for the mail costs per transfer. Shipping will be 2-3 days from each country to the other, supposed that the sequence I mentioned is obeyed.
Not so for Serbia (sorry you there).

And who was the guy I sent something in to in NL for 3 times in a row, all lost ? I forgot (banned it from my mind). So he must be counted out. LOL.

Did I forget a country ? please say so.

VJ, I must say, very nice initiative. I'd also have to say though that if the list grows significantly maybe the manufacturer/supplier can consider two of them to go round ? I suppose he finds it worth while if the list is large enough anyway.

Peter

[nik.d]

...
- Serbia (there it will be lost, so good idea to have that as the last one).
...

Ahahahah 
Next time you better spend few cents more and send envelope as registered mail. You know, the ones with big "R" sticker and some numbers on them

Now seriously, since there is no "a" or "B75" NOS1 here (AFAIK), plus Serbia is not member of EU community, there would be additional expense on receiver's
account on import tax + duty fees (approx 30% on goods + transport value) plus additional 'trouble' w/ Customs Officers on returning the goods, think it's
much easier to circulate the cable inside EU countries only.

Brgds,
George

[PeterSt]

Hahaha, challenged you eh ? Yes, I could have put a couple of beers on you responding first.
But you also touch the subject I wanted to leave out in my post because I thought it would come up anyway. So, those taxes ...

People who ship the cable should take care to ensure the cable for 500 euros BUT not indicate that value. Merely think about 15 euros or so. Now the tax will be free (or otherwise almost be free) while the cable is still ensured for 500. Especially with normail mail this will work, though it may depend a bit on the ensured money. So think like this : I can choose (over here) for standard ensurance (50 IIRC) or "more" and the more is maximised to 500 euros. Costs 10 more for the shipping. When the cable gets lost all can be justified and the how we'll see when it is necessary. One thing to remember : nothing is wrong with this because nobody is keeping the cable; I would be able to deal with this and when in order (when necessary I mean) I will do it.

In any event nobody is allowed to neglegt this or otherwise e.g. we will need to be 80 euros VAT + import duties (something like 14) and this is nonsense in this case. And, it can't be made clear (to customs etc.) anyway so forget about that (really).

Please notice that this will already be in order for when it is shipped from the US to here. And *now* I don't know about normal mail because while it should arrive it can take 4 weeks (but 1 week will be normal). So it's the combination of
a. being able to value it low
b. still be able to ensure that high.
And for example when we ship something this can't be done (this combination) unless it's a gift or repair or something like that.

think it's much easier to circulate the cable inside EU countries only.

Doesn't help, because especially there there's VAT in order (like 21% over here). This VAT will be charged by customs.
Companies can get back that VAT but most of us are not companies.

Peter

[nik.d]

There is a possibility for YFS to use "ATA Carnet" and send f.e. cable to you (as Phasure) or any other company. ATA Carnet will allow clearing customs w/out
paying the duties/taxes, up to 12 months. This is normally used for all intl. exhibitions & fairs. Goods have to be returned or duties paid - Carnet closed.

As for insurance, think it is better to use PayPal and arrange each new recipient send full cable value to YFS (or VJ?) and YFS (or VJ) return funds to previous
person in the circle, upon new recipient receipt confirmation. Or delivery monitored through courier's tracking system. Here we do not have PayPal option "Send
Money to a Friend" (no P.Pal fees) but think it should be available in most EU countries?

[PeterSt]

Hey George,

As for insurance, think it is better to use PayPal and arrange each new recipient send full cable value to YFS (or VJ?) and YFS (or VJ) return funds to previous
person in the circle, upon new recipient receipt confirmation. Or delivery monitored through courier's tracking system. Here we do not have PayPal option "Send
Money to a Friend" (no P.Pal fees) but think it should be available in most EU countries?

This part is beyond me. Are you talking about ensurance of "not getting lost" by the courier and such ? Doesn't look like it ? Anyway I did ...

Regards,
Peter

[nik.d]

Insurance is valid for one transport route = one transport document ('Waybill'). The way you suggested requires each person sending the cable ('Shipper')
to request insurance (pay extra premium for it) to cover the goods from loss during transport. If you request 'full insurance', goods value has to be declared
on transport document. Now 'beloved Customs Officers' have easy job.

The other way is your direct contract with some Insurance Company to which you declare shipment of goods and request insurance for it. For the company
this is standard and obvious route for doing business, but for individuals think it is harder or even not possible at all...

[PeterSt]

OK George. Then you know better.
Conclusion = forget about it ?

[nik.d]

No, not forget about it, just not involve insurance etc. It ads extra cost to anyone interested to hear this cable. Cable should be sent by courier service
like 'UPS Saver' (trackable) with declared value lower than eur 45, individual to individual. Inter-EU shipments as well. See EU tax-free allowance.
PayPal coverage stays for cable owner, he's 'free of worries'. There should be some discount on the cable, that's how exporting goods is usually treated

[PeterSt]

Well, fine. So it is not ensured and who is paying for the cable when it gets lost ?

Next, shipping will cost 80-100 euros by such a courier.

Is it better now ? good.

Peter

PS: Others can continue the discussion as much as they like.

[vrao]

Oh boy,
This is more complicated than I thought it would be! There are some valuable suggestions here. I'll have to look into them in detail. (Is it me or one sees a great business opportunity in European courier service!!
VJ

[nik.d]

No, not really VJ, it is well covered. It's Peter who makes confusion here with his lost packages (and insurance )

OK, some practicality, UPS Express Courier (2-3 days delivery):
Shipment from Rochester, NY, USA to Oene, NL
Customs value US$30 Weight 0.2 Lbs
Cost: US$ 59.18

Pick Up date: Monday, 8 PM Latest
Delivery date: Wednesday, End of day

Given rate is without any commercial contract with UPS. AFAIK, Peter has one, so transport should be (much) less than figure stated above.
I receive packages from Farnel UK (through UPS) and pay GBP 5.00 as flat rate to SRB.

I had zero lost packages with UPS / FedEx / DHL / TNT as international couriers. And have sent out thousands of envelopes containing one
or more Bill of Lading(s). Bill of Lading is transport document and what's more important, financial document. So I worry not on UPS service.
Dutch postal (non-registered mail) service, yes, very. And Peter confirms it but it looks like he blames other countries. Except for lost/stolen
NOS1 in USA. Intra-Europe delivery should not cost much. Registered mail, signature confirmed. Allways.

[PeterSt]

Hey Mr Troll here are some facts :

Attached from top to bottom from here to (other way around does not matter), all in euros :

Norway
United Kingdom
Netherlands
Switzerland
Serbia (Troll's address)
USA (VJ)

200 grams (not 100 but doesn't make a difference) and ensured for 350 euros (otherwise 5 euros less).

Now I don't know in what world you live (OK, I do but you don't know ours) but this is reality.
FYI : Farnell's shipping is completely free to normal places like all over europe (or within the US (Newark)) except where you live, so now do some math on *that*, OK ? (hint : division by 0 is not allowed).

Then you make the nice assumption that I will be involved in all this shipping in the first place, which I will NOT (no cable is shipped to my place). And this is not because of your strange mood, but because I did not plan to anyway and I am not even involved.

Then you take it easily for granted that nothing will be lost in the first place, which is nice again but should count for you only and at your own risk. So what you are doing is telling e.g. Mani "hey man, don't worry because it will never get lost so don't ensure it" which is MOOT because that costs 5 euros. So let Mani answer this. Just as an example. He sends it out and it gets lost. Who pays ? you ?? No, Mani or if he's smart the receiver (but he will lose that in court).

I say it again :
Send it by normal mail which will cost 20 euros (23 I think) including ensurance for 500, while valuing it for 15 or so. This works. You can also send it for something like 13 euros without that ensurance (then it's ensured for a standard 50). The difference ? 10 euros. So THAT is what you are doing difficult about and THAT is how YOU confuse for a reason beyond me. And do notice that you are not saying that my super mail (with indeed risk on loss and which (*I* told about in the first place with an example of internally in Holland)) does not work. Instead you have seemingly better ways implying 350 euros loss of which you say it won't happen.
Serbian ways ? Come one now.

Do you sense some steam-up ? haha

Do notice that I am not saying that it should be sent from the US by normal mail (just because it takes too long).

OK, some practicality, UPS Express Courier (2-3 days delivery):
Shipment from Rochester, NY, USA to Oene, NL
Customs value US$30 Weight 0.2 Lbs
Cost: US$ 59.18

I just showed the real practice when aranged from here (last screenshot below). Do notice that UPS is American which may make a difference and that there's also a ~1.3 factor currency difference in order (read : your shown USD 59.18 will become USD 70 because of that - may be hard to understand and no, I don't make a mistake). So for VJ this may be in order (I'm still highly doubtful because there's no way any American can send his NOS1 back to here for under 2 times the price I charge) but alas.

I had zero lost packages with UPS / FedEx / DHL / TNT as international couriers

Don't f*ck with us. I had and one of them was to YOU and it was with TNT you mention. Your response ? I should have used UPS in a blaming fashion. Are you crazy ? you choose for that yourself for a device of (I forgot) 25 euros with 1 euro shipping costs (look at the screenshots what it would have costed you otherwise). Who sent a new one for (your) free ? me. So that's how it works. Sender sends something which gets lost and is responsible for it. In this case that is 350 euros on my estimate (but 350 USD without shipping, import duties, VAT and possible importer revenue, might he exist over here). So 350 euros will be on the very low side.).

I hope some feet are back on the ground now and mine already were. I also hope this is all taken in good spirit and that all I seem to need to to is debunking your sort of "accusing" while your own data is not right. Not for the practice as it goes here. And you will know too that what I showed (screenshots) *is* what you're invoiced (and then discount when having a contract).

Peter