Test Of A NOS1a With A Battery Powered Laptop

[christoffe]

Hi,

did anyone make a test of the NOS1a with a connection to a battery powered laptop including W8?

Joachim

[Jud]

Hi,

did anyone make a test of the NOS1a with a connection to a battery powered laptop including W8?

Joachim

No, but Win 7.  (Boot Camp on a mid-2009 MacBook Pro - Core 2 Duo w/ 8GB RAM.  Boot Camp won't install Win 8 on it, which is likely a good thing considering the limited resources.)

It seems that an NOS1a owner has been generous enough to loan me his DAC for an extended period, for which I'm immensely grateful.  I've let Peter know, but am not mentioning his name in this comment just in case he'd rather be anonymous.

My first experience of an NOS1a (really, any DAC of this class, though I've heard a friend's QB9, which was quite good - my own semi-customized DAC cost around 25% of what the NOS1a does) was very, very interesting.

I was thinking perhaps I'd be "blown away," astonished.  Actually, I was not, because the experience felt so ordinary.  But now let me explain that word, "ordinary."  When a friend plays an acoustic guitar for you, do you hold your head in your hands and weep?  No (unless your friend happens to be Dylan, let's say).  When you hear someone sing, is it a cause of great emotion?  Again, no (barring some great artist or your child doing the singing).  And that was the way in which listening to the NOS1a felt ordinary: Vocals were just like someone singing in the room with me; acoustic guitars like my stepson (who lives with us) playing his Martin.  (Though to be fair, Jason does not play anything like Michael Hedges or Ottmar Liebert.)

How very strange to be so close to the "Holy Grail" (live acoustic sound) and have it feel like any number of listening experiences I've had - but those listening experiences were to live music.  (It reminds me of the otherwise forgettable movie "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade," where Indiana must choose the Grail from a roomful of ornate goblets, and picks the simple undecorated cup, because that is what someone in Jesus' humble circumstances would actually have used.) 

So one can't rave about "musicality," because it would be as nonsensical as talking about the "musicality" of live music.  Accuracy?  I suppose, but who ever left a Pavarotti concert talking about his accuracy?  What there is, is music, and not much of anything else added.

 

[christoffe]

Hi Jud,

nice report and it sounds promising.

I had to stop my tests due to heavy loads of the processor yesterday. (not the right XXH and driver settings)
May I know your XXH settings with the laptop, such as SFS and Q1.

My first impressions with the first test tracks have been:
1)   The sound stage moved backwards
2)   Less right/left stereo separation (with the BNC cable)
3)   More details of the cymbals

As soon as I find the best XXH settings for the laptop “the beat goes on”.

And I dare to say, this will be the best SQ with a NOS1a ever, right that SQ you experienced
 
The reason? The laptop sees the 12Volts only.

Thank you Jud.

Kind regards
Joachim

[christoffe]

Report continued from Reply #2

The Laptop is working with XXH now ………… and I will confirm Jud impressions.
The SQ is very near to live impressions.

I have never heard such drums and voices in my room.
Jimmy Hendrix is live on stage with “All Along The Watchtower”
The distance between Beady Bell and Jamie Cullum on stage is now appr. 2m, with the PC it is appr. 0,05m on the track “Intermission music”. ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Belvedere-Beady-Belle/dp/B0012K5PX4/ref=sr_1_8?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1411057693&sr=1-8&keywords=beady+belle)

1)   The “colours” of the drumset (cymbals, Tom Toms) are very good to distinguish.
2)   Kick drums are better than with a PC.
3)   Bass “sound volume” is less.

The complete audio chain plus the listening rooms are full of compromises, and the 12Volt driven laptop seems at present the best choice for a better SQ.

The consequence is, the power supply/transformer of the PC has to be removed into a separate housing/case.

If there is a chance for you to install XXH on a laptop it is worth a test.

My laptop is from 2011 and the sound is great/amazing!!

Joachim


EDIT I:
With the SQ of the laptop I do have more and more the impression that I have to adjust the speaker placement. But when ………. my next sleeping place is in the barn.

Edit II: Jud found a wonderful description what comes to our ears with the laptop. Voices are great. Sammy Davis jun. sings just live in the living room.

[PeterSt]

Hi Joachim,

Don't you have the feeling that you went over some hurdle and that you are suddenly able to plainly compare with live music (or real instruments) and that it now has become SO easy to tune for the better ?
I think you did. And now it will go faster and faster. Just watch it happening ...

And what about your bad room eh ?
Not so bad any more ?

Peter

[PeterSt]

All right. I don't know how to keep up with new references (see BNC Interlink topic) but I will try this tonight too. Easy to do of course. It's only that my laptop has Windows 8.1, but we'll see.

I'll set it up in the same way the Audio PC currently works, hence the music is all on another PC and I'll connect to that one with an Ethernet cable. The laptop I will control through RDC with the Surface tablet and WiFi (like I do that currently with the Audio PC as well).

People should know :
Since the NOS1a any laptop being bad for sound is history; it could be slow, but inherently bad for sound it is not any more (because of the isolating NOS1a).
And yes, of course, *now* someone has to come up with UTILIZING the laptop for its inherent battery capabilities. Easy enough, but I never thought of it.

One more thing, but not so important :
I can see from the way I use the whole set of

a. Server PC;
b. Audio PC;
c. Remote Control Tablet

that the Audio PC gets blazingly fast because of that. I don't even know why exactly, but it looks like when the Audio PC doesn't need to do anything else than play audio - and then focused on NO hdd's to be served but Network connection is always open - that it thus gets blazingly fast because of that. I even have the feeling that the remote control contributes to it. For example regarding this latter : clicking Stop with the mouse on the Auio PC's screen itself shows some lag, and once you are used to that and next tap Stop on the remote control (tablet) it feels like the music stops even earlier than you tapping Stop.
So I'm actually curious how the (slowish) laptop will behave to this regard.

Thank you Joachim,
Peter

[christoffe]

Hi Peter,

A)   Stumbling over the article about the BNC cable I tried to test that cable due to the immediate availability within my spares. Let’s say, this was an “accident”.

B)   With your modifications of the NOS1 to the NOS1a and your remark/hint to the laptop and my experience of a superior SQ with the battery driven Dartzeel preamp the idea came to test the laptop route.

C)   My room with the unfavourable speaker placement is my reference environment and I can hear differences (under this same conditions).

D)   The audio configuration I’m using is very simple. Laptop with USB connections to the mouse, NOS1a and an external hard disk. No tablet. The USB connections are not enhancing the pre-conditions for a good SQ. (XXH using in “attended mode” and with “**8x** ArcPrediction”  **on the PC + laptop** all the time)

E)   The SQ with the laptop is not altering noticeable when driven in “battery mode” or without battery. The conclusion is, the 12Volt “power supply” of the laptop is the key benefit for a better SQ.

F)   The laptop has not the performance of a PC by design but with the NOS1a the result is amazing. The processor load is very small (23% of 1,0 Ghz) and increasing a little bit during the data transfer naturally.


So happy listening in the late afternoon today.


Joachim

EDIT:

The USB cable to the NOS1a is a "data transfer only" type.

[PeterSt]

Joachim,

E)   The SQ with the laptop is not altering noticeable when driven in “battery mode” or without battery. The conclusion is, the 12Volt “power supply” of the laptop is the key benefit for a better SQ.

Please help me a bit with understanding what you are saying here.

Peter

[christoffe]

Joachim,

E)   The SQ with the laptop is not altering noticeable when driven in “battery mode” or without battery. The conclusion is, the 12Volt “power supply” of the laptop is the key benefit for a better SQ.

Please help me a bit with understanding what you are saying here.

Peter

Hi Peter,

A) Laptop tested with a full loaded battery only, no connection the power distributor.

B) Laptop tested with a full loaded battery, power supply transformer AC/DC (220V/12V) connected to the power distributor (and laptop). (Battery Through Mode)

C) battery removed from the laptop, power supply transformer AC/DC (220V/12V) connected to the power distributor (and laptop).


Joachim

Edit:
Version "A" should produce the best SQ and "B" the second best. (acc. to my Dartzeel experience)

EDIT II: After listening through last night, the best SQ creates  choice/alternative  C)

[PeterSt]

Ah, understand now. Thank you.
Peter

[PeterSt]

Well, this appears not so easy for me;
The (only) laptop I have here has only 1GB of memory which a.o. means that I can't use a RAMDisk, which is a requirement (for playing music in well (fast) fashion over the LAN.

But then I thought : let's hook up the analyser once I have it all installed and all anyway. And now I see some strange things ...
Notice : the laptop runs on batteries.

Further environmental stuff which could be related :

- Windows 8.1.
- A possible not the best ground relation with the analyser, *because* of the laptop not being hooked up to the mains.
- Analyser is in the same ring as audio.

First thing : the noise line (no playing) is not as straight and as low as that I am used to. However, a longer time ago I have seen this as well, but with the notice that the analyser itself was hooked up to the laptop (so the analysis ran on the laptop) and then too I ran it on batteries for the (test) purpose. Normally it's hooked up to a W7 machine. I regard this unimportant and "just so" (ahum, but see below).

The second thing though I have never seen before. This could be crucial, because there's something else I never understood much. This is :

Normally, at playing a test signal, there's something which looks like "heating up" and it causes the noise line to rise during playing. This starts after a minute or so after switching on the DAC but it is *also* related to the time the test signal plays. To summarize this in short : After a rest the noise is low and on par regarding "my" standards, but in a minute it starts to rise. Next, after a while it will reset and the frequency of this noise going up and down is predictable. Notice though that I am not talking about piles of noise - only a few dB (at -120dB or so).
And now, with the laptop on batteries this happens the other way around ... Noise starts out as how I'm used to, but now it DROPS.

Other data : Such thing as the rising noise started to happen since the USB interface, and with the first NOS1 version I never saw that.

So what can this ever be ?

What I have been thinking about before, but now do more, is that "noise oscillation" is happening. Don't ask me how it is possible that you can set your clock to it, but this possibly is related to how it can reset. So, this can be done by Stop - Play, but it *also* happens when the test signal has come to an end and "connects" to its beginning again (A-B playing) which is not seemless (because of the test signal itself which does not 100% end to the "starting cycle". When that happens, the analyser shows a "blip" (anomaly) and right away the noise is where it should be. And then all starts all over (rising).
Now with the laptop this happens the other way around (noise drops) but the sequence of the happening is the very same.

What's also crucial in my view, is that this process - or better the depth of if (difference between lowest and highest amount of noise) is higher with the isolated NOS1a. So that too got me thinking already; it really has to be "real noise" impeded, and of some oscillating kind.

All right. The last bit of this post goes in real time ...

Then I hooked up the laptop to the mains.
This laptop comes with a power brick which contains an earth connection; I assume this is really used. Anyway I plugged it into an earthed outlet. Btw not the same as the audio ring. Well, watch out ...

Noise line (without playing) is complety normal again. Hmm ...

Now let's press play and see what happens;

Same as before.

So now let's put the laptop in the same ring as the audio ring. No earth;

WOW. Noise line (no playback) is going wild beyond 80000Hz. See picture below. But otherwise - odd - the behaviour with Playback is exactly the same as in the other mains ring (with earth).

Last possible combination (leaving all other gear in the same place) : Audio ring but with earth connection (nothing else uses earth at this moment) :

Same story for the noise without playing.
Same story when playing.

There is more, but I'll finish this post now. Maybe more later ...

Peter

PS: Also see this post : Re: Cables with BNC Connectors/Adapters Are Generating A Superoir SQ - CAREFUL.

[christoffe]

Continuation from Reply # 8  after listening sessions from today (with variation C):

1)   Better 3D-image of the recording studio/concert hall
2)   Better definition/resolution (tone colour/timbre) of all instruments and voices. The “refined” timbre is AMAZING!!!
3)   Bass not that “tight” anymore (or “nearer to live”?)
4)   Off axis listening again possible

Test CD’s:

- “Touch” from Yello (a lot of bass)
- “M²” from Marcus Miller (a lot of bass)
- “Kind Of Blue” From Miles Davis (brass instruments)
- “Tenderness” from Al Jarreau
**“The Chick Corea Songbook“ from The Manhatten Transfer**

This is the best SQ I ever heard in my room.

If some of the NOS1a owners has the chance to test this combination it is worth an test attempt.

Joachim

P.S. Our audio system is connected to the mains without any refinement.

[PeterSt]

Eh, wow, I have to mention this. However,

So two days back I have been busy with this laptop measurements (see last posts in this topic). From there I thought "okay, if this laptop measures best by means of that other mains + earth ring, the Audio PC will do better in there too ?"
And so I tried. Was convenient as well because as I told about in the other topic, the PC (and everything) without earth seemed to create DC Offset anomalies.

Well, my first impressions were rather the very same as Joachim's (see his last post). However, the "less bass" was emphasized. Well that is ... I tried Marcus Miller and all I thought was "stupid slapped bass; of course there's no bass in there". Still I wondered ... Already day before yesterday I noticed the lack of power. I just wanted to suck out the slam of everything. Strangely enough it did not really feel as too light, but just no way to energise the room with anything.
Reorganised my cabling better yesterday (after the change the day before), but it did not help.
Tried Billy Cobham to get some feel of drum-slam, but no.
Yello worked, but that's another kind of bass ...

And so, while I yesterday already wanted to go back to the PC connection in the audio ring (with or without earth), I just did that (without earth).
Yes, WOW, what a super difference !! Marcus Miller is full of bass !

Now don't ask me how this is possible, except for the ever back noticed offset between two separated (earth pin) rings. Didn't check that, but can that be it ? The difference is crazy.

Peter