Cables with BNC Connectors/Adapters Are Generating A Superoir SQ

[listening]

Hi Peter, hi Joachim,

in contrast to the piano - where the hammer is damping the vibrations of the strings - the basic wave and harmonics at the harpsichord can move freely. Addionally the strings are - depending on construction - picked sharply.

Georg

[boleary]

   
Re: Cables with BNC Connectors/Adapters Are Generating A Superoir SQ
« Reply #241 on: October 04, 2014, 12:59:36 pm »
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So all what has changed is make the connections 75 Ohm at both sides (DAC and amplifier) plus I gave my NOS1a 75.38 Ohm output impledance (couldn't get closer to 75 Ohm unless I have the resistors produced for me).

Hi Peter. I'm not sure I understand this quote. Did you  put 75 ohm bnc connectors on both ends of the cable and put 75 ohm bnc connectors on both the DAC and the Amps? Also, did you consider trying 50 ohm connectors and cable? Just wondering.

[PeterSt]

So I survided day 5.
And officially this is enough.
I would even say that some breaking in has been in order, so it even got better.

At this moment I am as far as not being able to "see" anything else but "live instruments" playing in front of me, no matter how hard I try to find faults. All what remains (for me) is the interpretation of how the recording itself may interfere with that idea. So example :

Maybe it is 4 years ago only that I started to recognize something like a real hi-hat coming from the speakers. So of course it was there before, but it started to be loud enough to recognize it as a hi-hat being played. Of course this improved and improved over time.
Now ? well, when say a piano plays at reality levels (90 dBSPL) the hi-hat is as loud as a live one at the same distance. This in itself is creepy. But now careful and this is what I mean :

At the same time (same track I mean) a normal cymbal is *not* at its normal level (ehm, luckily ?). But then I have been at concerts where the drum kit was not amplified, except for the hi-hat. And, after the drummer had slammed around for 30 minutes, he managed to slam the hi-hat's microphone out of the way and it was me myself putting it back into position because nothing of it coud be heard anymore. This, while it's a crucial part of the drum kit.

So what I'm saying is that these kind of aspects will be known at recording-making, and I guess the hi-hat will be amplified more than the other parts. Same for instruments amongst eachother - undoubtedly.
Anyway, at this moment this seems the only aspect left for perceiving the real thing. Still scary enough.

Peter

[PeterSt]

Hi Peter. I'm not sure I understand this quote. Did you  put 75 ohm bnc connectors on both ends of the cable and put 75 ohm bnc connectors on both the DAC and the Amps?

Brian, Yes.
Plus the NOS1(a) needs a change for output impedance.

Also, did you consider trying 50 ohm connectors and cable? Just wondering.

Yes, but this won't work because no generally appliable 50 Ohm output/input terminals exist (like as a replacement in your NOS1). 75 Ohm comes in all kind of forms.
Besides that, 75 Ohm performs better (hard to explain, but take today's all high bandwidth (coax / video) as the example - they are all in 75 Ohm and not in 50 Ohm).

Regards,
Peter

[AlainGr]

Hi Peter,

I suppose that we could ask to have BNC connectors instead of RCA and have an adaptor (BNC to RCA) at the other end for the amplification ?

Alain

[PeterSt]

Hi Peter,

we are reading a lot of "mouth-watering" reports of the phnatastic SQ, but no details about the cable in use? It's a secret?

Hey, we're getting nervous!

Joachim

Yes, it is a secret (for now) and I told so from the start (with this cable).

The reason is strange : I don't want you to get into these cables if you can't do it well anyway. But merely - and that is the "for now" - I am all over NOT confident this will work out the same for everyone.

So Yes, I am (by now) shouting all over the place because what else to do (for me the truth is the truth) but because this is and remains about (eliminated) reflections which is largely related to cable length, I am just not able to tell whether this is now all the way right for everyone, or that it coincidentally works out for me (at my ~3m15).

Please remember what I said : We can make the cable for 225-250 euros (which by now turned into 250 because of the (physically hard) work), which already is not a "funny amount" any more. This is excluding the work people themselves HAVE to do because otherwise there's no prediction of the result at all. What I am saying is this (and everybody should read carefully) :

Because of a "step by step" more motivation - which includes the incrementing reporting about it - I ended up with "molesting" my own NOS1a in order to do it the best way. So mind you, things had to (have to) be changed and if it wouldn't have worked out, somebody here puts all back. A few lost hours and that is all.
Same for the modification at the power amps - which will be in your own hands in the first place.

Now, if you yourself make these interlinks, it will also cost you close to that money. This is because you don't have the required tools for them, which I bought just the same because it was (is) for the better cause. So say I don't care much. But if you (all) would apply what we did over here and the result is poor, then you won't like it.
And what about the NOS1(a) ?

So regarding the latter I might have an idea that can work in more easy fashion (without shipping it AGAIN back and forth), but please ... what if it doesn't work out for YOU.
~200 euros down the drain, another 100 for NOS1(a) adjustments and still without shipping. And why ?

Because over here it works out.

And so this time I tell you this is not enough.
It first must be proven to generally work out but at this moment I am not sure how to do that. Sure, if someone like you tells me "I will try it !" then I will be happy to help, but only after you know it may fail. And you know that now.

So you have the above costs in mind ? Add another 100 plus whatever sort of shipping to change it back if it does not work out.

Understand now ?

It all sneaked in and although it is your own fault Joachim (haha), I realized too late the possible consequences and maybe I should have gone along, but in total silence.
How in the world I can stay silent (like how all is now) is another matter.

So at this moment this is the idea :

Mani has two NOS1a's and accidentally his second came in two weeks ago (was it's turn) and Mani is going to try. So all will be applied for him, just like I have it myself. The difference ? his interlinks will be 10 meters.
Mani, unlike me, is also used to the more expensive interlinks. So he will be able to judge whether it is all and 100% "for sure" for the better. And that at this very different length.
If he says "OK !" then that's a start. But only that, because now his amplifiers are the same as mine.
Mani is in a convenient position because of his two NOS1a's. So he can compare. Also accidentally he can have two parallel inputs at the amp (speaker). So he *really* can compare.

If anyone has the better eureka idea now ... please feel free ...

[PeterSt]

I suppose that we could ask to have BNC connectors instead of RCA and have an adaptor (BNC to RCA) at the other end for the amplification ?

Hey Alain ... No.
Maybe you skipped a 100 posts ?

Peter

[AlainGr]

Sorry, I may not have explained myself correctly.

I read that you have modified a NOS1a to have BNC connectors and I suppose that if you were to do this to someone's NOS1a, it would either take the place of the RCA or the XLR outputs ?

If this is right, the cable would be BNC at each end. But I don't see myself asking to have my power amplifier modified at its input to have BNC connectors... This is why I was asking.

Alain

[PeterSt]

Hey Alain,

But I don't see myself asking to have my power amplifier modified at its input to have BNC connectors...

Although I did not see coming that you would not ask your amp manufacturer etc., I understood. But without that it won't work.
Then it's a hit and miss like a few of us did so far, and possibly you can end up with better (SQ) than what you have now.

Clear ?

Peter

[AlainGr]

Mmmm I don't imagine someone at Spectral saying "no problem" ... They really have their own way about fiddling with their components...

I will have to ask questions around...

Alain

[Arjan]

Hi,
I am live near Peter. I already have good results with 1$ coax cables plus cheap bnc-rca adapters. I would like to volunteer to get my nos1a changed. If that is a good suggestion. (Remark: would like to have the nos1a terminals lower, now they conflict with the usb port.)

But I use separate amplifiers (Jadis JA30). I could ask my shop to change the terminals if needed. They did a replacement of the rca to new rca terminals some years ago. Or I stick to the bnc-rca adapter for now. Not sure if replacing of these terminals at the amplifiers are mandatory?
regards, Arjan

[christoffe]

So at this moment this is the idea :

Mani has two NOS1a's and accidentally his second came in two weeks ago (was it's turn) and Mani is going to try. So all will be applied for him, just like I have it myself. The difference ? his interlinks will be 10 meters.
Mani, unlike me, is also used to the more expensive interlinks. So he will be able to judge whether it is all and 100% "for sure" for the better. And that at this very different length.
If he says "OK !" then that's a start. But only that, because now his amplifiers are the same as mine.
Mani is in a convenient position because of his two NOS1a's. So he can compare. Also accidentally he can have two parallel inputs at the amp (speaker). So he *really* can compare.

Hi Peter,

that's a good idea for us "No Orelo MKII " owners and Mani is requested to be the pioneer.

We would like to know if there is a the difference of the SQ between his present 50 Ohm Huber+Suhner K_03252D (inner conductor: single strand, solid copper core coated in silver) cable and your new cable.

Thank you in advance Mani for your kind help.

Joachim

[boleary]

Hey Joachim, I'm also interested in your impression of the RG 223 solid, silver coated, copper cable you ordered. It appears that the conductor of the RG 223 is smaller than the RG 142, solid, silver coated, copper I've been listening to. Everything good Peter has said about his latest cable could just as well be written about my 1m+ (3 foot) RG 142 cable with silver plated bnc/rca adapter. Very strange Peter had such a bad experience with the RG 142. Maybe the length had something to do with it? Anyway, am looking forward to your impression of the RG 223. One more thing, here's a link to a military spec RG 142 with solid, silver coated, copper (no steel) conductor:
http://www.cablesondemand.com/category/CORG142/product/CO-142BNCX200/URvars/Items/Library/InfoManage/CO-142BNCX200.htm

Brian

[PeterSt]

Very strange Peter had such a bad experience with the RG 142.

Yes, and that is (thus) exactly the danger. But at least that wasn't done right. And so YMMV.
With that 75 Ohm "Blaxius" at least all has been done to make it as right as possible and then still (length ?).

Peter

[christoffe]

Hey Joachim, I'm also interested in your impression of the RG 223 solid, silver coated, copper cable you ordered. It appears that the conductor of the RG 223 is smaller than the RG 142, solid, silver coated, copper I've been listening to.

Hi Brian,

you are right, both types seems to be identical, except the core is 0,05mm smaller at the RG223.

I will report and hopefully the SQ will be lifted again.

Joachim

P.S.

Here in Germany is a reputated audio cable manuf. "HMS Electronic" ( http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/hms/hms.html ), and the mastermind Strassner wrote some critiques about electrical cables in general, but in German only.
His biggest concern are the "RF" immissions into the cable, because every cable is an antenna. (sample: a PVC coated wire is attached to most radios as an antenna)