Cables with BNC Connectors/Adapters Are Generating A Superoir SQ

[PeterSt]

May it help ...

I too had the distinct idea that the cable needed a couple of days of breaking in. And this is not something I experienced before. OTOH who am I with my 1$ cabling.

Peter

[PeterSt]

Peter - you were using 75ohm coax i/c's and now you are using 50/50 coax. Personally I think that is a fairly limited comparison.

Hi Paul - If that is so then I'm afraid you still didn't get what this is about. But I won't repeat it for the 10th time, and instead I'll put it differently now :

No ANY cable without a BNC connector or the like (many exist) is terminated properly. Also not when you spend a 10K on it. This, while a properly terminated cable costs ~1$ and the trick should be in there.

Additionally, not any interlink is allowed to show such huge difference, unless it is completely wrong or (~) completely right. I follow the theories of (~) completely right and work to that. If that does NOT work out, I seek further (see my "bad day" post from a week or so back) *and* I find something.
All other is subjective to our ears and system.

I also want you (again !) to please digest this in good fashion, which merely is for others, but which should put your own feet on the ground. So please :

You again or still, apply tweaks which are not mine. Best example is the sugar cubes, which I sent of pure misery out to you. And no, no need to come back with that in a "but I don't use them any more" fashion. You did, and you loved it while I got mad form them. Remember, these are TWEAKS without justification, until you put up that justification (now compare with the BNC cable but first understand its appliance). So now you're for sure using ByBees. Another sheer TWEAK. Mind you, no single tweak ever ever worked for me. This too is subjective (I could be fairly deaf) but what it's really about is that you put forward your findings in the context of your tweaks. Paul, this is useless to others.
And to yourself, because you won't know what you're listening to.

Everybody can do what he wants but I am here on this forum to protect people from listening to (or throug) subjective appliances.
And so I just tried, again.

Now please continue.
Regards,
Peter

[xp9433]

I read somewhere recently that the recommended differential cable impedance for USB 2.0 & 3.0 is 90 ohms +/- 10%. Perhaps you should be experimenting with a different cable?
Plenty or research & whitepapers available

[PeterSt]

I read somewhere recently that the recommended differential cable impedance for USB 2.0 & 3.0 is 90 ohms +/- 10%.

FWIW : I investigated this and even MIL spec won't do better than +/- 15%. And all what I found further did not claim specs at all. Quite messy, this business.
What a dedicated Audio manufacturer makes of this ? no idea, but probably worse because it needs the ($$$$$) measurement equiment first.

The only thing I ran into is the iFi Gemini (http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-gemini/) which claims an exact 90 Ohms, but which I won't believe anyway because it's a trick (which can not be varified either). So in this case it's the easy separation of data and power, and that "will do it" ? No way. And if so, cause yourself not to need the USB power in the first place and you're done.
No, it is not as simple as that.

Anyway I tried to find something good, and I sure can obtain the +/- 15% cable (just over 100 euros), but I was actually looking for better specs. However, the sheer fact that a (rare !) manufacturer tries to make the best of it and *still* says +/- 15% (that's a 30% variation) tells me that it can't get any better. Here, most probably, it is about the same "issue" as with RCA, namely that no dielectric is physically possible because of the way of connecting. Now don't ask me what an e.g. 75 Ohm RCA cable will really be (this is a bit what Paul missed, perhaps), but take it that any small mismatch will imply reflections. And again : With digital this is allowed up to the point that data (LOWS and HIGHS) get interpreted wrongly, while with (our) normal analogue signal EACH small deviation (= reflection) will matter.
And so : what was regarded important for digital is even more important for analogue. OK, says me.

What I have been thinking of is self-create a balanced 50 Ohm connection; I think this can be done although it will be hard (for me) to verify whether it works, unless THD shows that it's all wrong. Now, the same I could attempt for USB; just use a 93 Ohm complete cable, and make it balanced in the same fashion as the balanced idea. And I do have all the 93 Ohm stuff (from ancient network history ...) while I no-where see it to purchase.
Could be fun ...

Peter

[PeterSt]

PS:

And I do have all the 93 Ohm stuff (from ancient network history ...) while I no-where see it to purchase.

The first part of this is not entirely true;
I don't have the "output/input" terminals. However, I already looked around a bit in the office's attic, and possibly I am able to find a dozen or more old network cards who have them and which can be used (but it won't be a nice-looking solution). Anyway this is finite, so in the end not the real solution. But I'm fairly sure that when I look harder I can find something for 93 Ohm ?

[Scroobius]

Remember, these are TWEAKS without justification, until you put up that justification (now compare with the BNC cable but first understand its appliance).

Peter - really no problem I agree with you 100% and I should not have worded my post the way I did (sorry!). I fully agree that TWEAKS are not the way to go in terms of the engineering development of a system. Absolutely I agree that comparison of 75 ohm without correct termination versus 50 ohm with correct termination is a correct and valid engineering comparison.

However for me, here, in this room, now, listening to my system, my normal interconnects are MUCH better than the coax. That is, in terms of sheer musical enjoyment, there is just no comparison. Now for sure I am listening to RCA interconnects that are not "properly" terminated. I may be listening to a whole bunch of distortion and liking it who knows?  Can I measure it? - no. However I feel I should post about it if only to raise a note of caution that coax is not (at this stage) necessarily a panacea (I get the feeling that interconnects are very complex and no one properly understands all yet). You have stated the 50 ohm coax with 50 ohm terminations is only the first step.

For sure, in future, I will think more carefully about the wording I use!!

So now you're for sure using ByBees. Another sheer TWEAK

Ah yes, to us we have to classify these as a TWEAK for the simple reason that we do not have the means to measure what they do in a circuit (at least I don't). BUT allegedly others (the scientists that developed them) do, and to them, I am sure it is not a tweak because they were developed using measurements and produced a demonstrable result. Well as we cannot do the measurements or see the results then I I have to agree they have to be classified as a TWEAK.

So it is time to put my hand up and say that I am guilty as charged - I have been found guilty of TWEAKERY of the first order. I shall be more circumspect with future posts.

Cheers

Paul

[PeterSt]

Ya ya ya ya, that all wasn't necessary Paul.
But you emphasized the right thing : we can not measure and me neither ! And the latter I hate.
So it is still true that I spent two full days in looking for something affordable. I think it's that important.
Well, as long as we see that no snake oil exists or should exist, and when we start to believe it's all technical stuff we talk about. Never mind audio is voodoo some times.

ha !

Peter

[boleary]

One reason folks might find differences with their coaxial cable is the difference in wire sizes and center conductor construction. By sheer luck I selected a cable with an 18 gauge silver coated solid copper center--no steel. (RG 142). I think the cheaper cables using RG58 conductor is a 20 gauge wire.

Below is a chart of the various types of coaxial cable from the company where I bought mine:



 

[PeterSt]

Brian,

And what would be the benefit of that ?
(I don't say there isn't any - just checking ).

Peter

[2glory]

Ready to buy BNC cables/Adaptors so after all the links and wire what do I buy off EBay? Ready to sell my SilverSmith Palladium $4K cables for $1.5K on the 'Gon

[PeterSt]

You won't find that on eBay. Too cheap. Haha.
And for me not easy to find directly in/from the US (I already tried). But I'll send you an email with some hints.

Peter

[boleary]

One reason folks might find differences with their coaxial cable is the difference in wire sizes and center conductor construction. By sheer luck I selected a cable with an 18 gauge silver coated solid copper center--no steel. (RG 142). I think the cheaper cables using RG58 conductor is a 20 gauge wire.

Brian,

And what would be the benefit of that ?

Well, when I wrote the above it was just a hunch. So this afternoon I got some six dollar a piece, 3 foot, RG 58, el cheapo solid copper BNC cable and compared them to my 20 dollar a piece, 3 foot, RG-142 solid copper-silver plated, high temp L-Com cable and the difference is huge. Earlier in this thread there was a comment that the cheap ( I assume RG-58) bnc cable sounded a bit slow and may have some loss in dynamics, but in all other respects, particularly the tonal balance of the low, mid and high frequencies, they sound very good. I can now verify that that perfectly described the cheaper RG 58 cable. But, I would add that after hearing the RG-142, the RG -58's sound mushy or as Paul suggested "grey."

The solid copper silver plated conductor - no steel- of the L-Com Rg 142 cables have transformed my system. You could say that all frequencies seem infinitely more focused, so the decay of cymbals, drive of the base and and resonance of vocals are all more clearly focused or defined with the consequence that the harmonics emanating from them sound more real than ever before. In one sense you could say the sound seems more bright or fresh, but not in a fake or objectionable way. Rather, its like you just opened the door to the club and you are immediately overwhelmed by the sound. Maybe I'm crazy or just like bad sound, but for me, this is the most significant change for the better in my system since I got one of Bert's amps.

[PeterSt]

Well Brian, a hunch ?
I am 5 hours further now, and/but with your idea as my hunch, I come to the same. But not via any normal selection-search in there; therefore I first had to (again) visit the PDF you linked to. And, at first tried all sorts of cable types including connectors and possible adapters. Now it's easy to reach those five hours. Anyway, yours really looks the best.

However, apart from your RG241 (CC142B-[length]) I also ordered RG213 (CC213B-[length]; can be better for reasons but can also be worse for different reasons. So I am just going to try.

Ordering is somewhat more difficult from here because as well as from the US as from the UK distributor no automatic order can be put in (both for the same reason of shipping which can't be calculated (huh ?)) but I'll get there.

Thanks ...
Peter

Edit : http://www.l-com.com/multimedia/catalog_page/lcom_025-06_RG142_and_RG213_50_Ohm_Cable_Assemblies.pdf

[boleary]

Well Brian, a hunch ?

I think its the same kind of intuitive hunch, or great good fortune, that pushed me to order XXHighend back in 2009. One must rely on such feelings when one has NO technical expertise. 

It will be interesting to hear how the RG 213 sounds being 13 gauge and stranded. However, if you find that the RG 142 cable sounds truly terrible don't be afraid to tell!

[boleary]

One other thing, the BNC/RCA adapter I ordered from L-Com and have been using has a nickel plated RCA center pin. Links to two other types of adapters I'm considering are below. One is plated in silver and the other gold.

http://rfsearch.rfindustries.com/ShowProduct.asp?classID=19&productID=3864

https://www.fastenal.com/web/products/details/0749410

Unfortunately the gold adapter only comes in packs of ten, though they appear to be of a much higher quality than the $1.25 ones that usually come up in a google search.