Cables with BNC Connectors/Adapters Are Generating A Superoir SQ

[PeterSt]

do the 75 ohms in the connectors.

What do you mean with that, Coen ?

[CoenP]

Terminating the 75 ohm video cable with 75 ohm resistors in the RCA plugs.

Similar to using two bnc-rca adapters with 50 ohm resistors buid in for a 50 ohm cable.

Regards, Coen

[PeterSt]

Coen,

Terminating the 75 ohm video cable with 75 ohm resistors in the RCA plugs.

If it were that easy ...

Peter

[CoenP]

No it isn't that simple, but I wanted to mimic the setup that started the discussion and it is the most easy to do.

A proper one would involve extra series resistance at the nos1 cable's end (42 ohms). This is for a later moment.

Regards, Coen

[CoenP]

Peter,

Hmm. Are you referring to a ftz style capacitors at the output? That would complicate it. I'd better start with resistors at the amp's end only. If I can find the proper rf ones in the scr*p box.

Regards, Coen

[manisandher]

As I mentioned before, I've bought a nice pair of Huber + Suhner cables for peanuts (compared to the retail price) on eBay and am waiting for them to get here from the US. If I love the way they sound, I am either going to have to: 1) bring the NOS1a up from my basement into the main room or; 2) have some new H+S cables custom-built for me (for $$$), as the cables I bought are only 3.4m in length and I need 10m. I'd really rather not do either of these things if I can avoid them.

On Peter's suggestion, I ordered some long (and cheap!) 50 Ohm cables and connectors from Farnell yesterday and they arrived about 30 minutes ago.

And oh là là...

Interestingly, it's kind of hard to describe the way they sound, in much the same way that the NOS1a's sound is hard to describe. The cables just sound 'right'... as if there's no cable there at all.

For the last few weeks I've had a pair of very expensive Tellurium Black Diamond cables on loan from a dealer (although I haven't really been around much to listen to them). But having compared the two just now, I'm so sorry to have to say that these 50 Ohm cables are MUCH better... even though they're much longer and of course much cheaper. The Telluriums are going back to the dealer today, and I've saved myself quite a lot of money. Hey Joachim, thanks for the tip man!

I can't help thinking that what we're (everyone, spearheaded by Peter) doing here is amazing. Anyone in their right mind looking for a truly state of the art system would use the knowledge on this forum to put together a nice PC (or get one built for them), install XX, buy a NOS1a, buy a nice pair of active speakers from Bert/Peter... and connect everything together using these 50 Ohm cables. I'm absolutely certain that $-for-$ it'd trounce anything else out there.

Mani.



 

[CoenP]

Hi Mani,

What Bnc to RCA adapters do you use? With or without the 50 ohm resistor in them? What type is the cable (like Rg 58u)

Thanks,

Regards, Coen

[manisandher]

Hi Coen, here's what I'm using:

RG58 BNC M/M, 5M (Farnell part no. 1351884)

I had already ordered these adapters from Mouser earlier in the week:

Emerson 27-8110 BNC Female to RCA Male adapters (Mouser part no. 601-27-8110)

But Farnell do similar adapters.

HTH.

Mani.

[PeterSt]

With or without the 50 ohm resistor in them?

Hey Coen,

There is no such thing as a resistor in a cable or connector or anywhere. Unless you put such a thing in there yourself.
It is impedance.

Regards,
Peter

[CoenP]

With or without the 50 ohm resistor in them?

Hey Coen,

There is no such thing as a resistor in a cable or connector or anywhere. Unless you put such a thing in there yourself.
It is impedance.

Regards,
Peter

It says so in this post, including the mention of loss of gain:http://www.phasure.com/index.php?action=post;quote=32240;topic=3026.0;num_replies=68;sesc=1f48dd3a878ffdfd1e9814fa31887d94

Reference is also made to a Dartzeel audio cable which is designed with a 50 ohm interface between amp and preamp:
- power amp input spec version A:BNC: 50 ±1 ohm, de 1 Hz à 1 MHz,
- preamp output spec: 50 ohms for BNC, < 100 ohms for RCA, 600 ohms for XLR

Now I had the (incorrect) notion the sound improvement was about the merits of this setup.

So this all about adding a 50 ohm (to 75 ohm?) characteristic impedance BNC-RCA adapter to be able to use a standard 50ohm cable?

If so, this adapter is only physically terminating the BNC cable and nothing else. How much further can you go in this case then concluding that it is all about the way the connector makes contact mechanically.

regards, Coen

[PeterSt]

OK Coen, you lost me.

So this all about adding a 50 ohm (to 75 ohm?) characteristic impedance BNC-RCA adapter to be able to use a standard 50ohm cable?

Almost. Here is my correction :

So this all about adding a 50 ohm (to 75 ohm?) characteristic impedance BNC-RCA adapter connector to be able to use a standard 50ohm cable?

Now it's Yes.
But it is allowed to replace BOTH "50 Ohm" with "75 Ohm".

If so, this adapter is only physically terminating the BNC cable and nothing else

Correct.

How much further can you go in this case then concluding that it is all about the way the connector makes contact mechanically.

Very wrong. Or better : Very far.
It is about now non-existing reflections if all is right.
And now I have the feeling that you did not read many of my posts in this topic. Or that my English is too poor to even want to start reading them.
Still you should.


Peter


PS: For your weekend :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_impedance

[nik.d]

Question before ordering any cable / adapter etc. My audio setup at the moment:

NOS1 > 0.6m IC > AMP1 > 2 pairs spkr cable > SPKR + AMP2,3 > SPKR LF section(s)
AMP1, 16W dual mono for each 8" Coax driver
AMP2,3 200W plate amp(s) for 2x12" (sub)Woofer sections

What reflections I have in 0.6 mtr interconnects ? (pure silver in foamy ptfe, twisted pr)

I can change above setup by using 2 sets of IC's: 0.6 + 3 mtr pairs - eliminating one pair of speaker
cables (high signal) but adding 3 mtrs low signal. Or using same lengths IC's perhaps ?

Thanks in adv.
George

[Scroobius]

Hey Coen,

I wonder if this is how the Bybee products work: just eating -excess- HF energy (do they work on digital too?)?

From what I have read Bybees work at a quantum level to reduce noise in any electrical circuit. I am pretty sure that noise levels are reduced regardless of frequency so should work in digital too - but would you need to reduce quantum noise in digital circuits? would quantum noise affect trigger levels square wave shape mmmm that could be a whole discussion apart.

The scientists that developed Bybees were able to measure base noise levels and used an empirical approach to reduce it. They had a hunch where to start but basically used expensive and exotic materials (gold silver special ceramics) and played with amounts thereof to "slipstream" electrons thereby stripping them of quantum noise. As no one really understands the quantum world (Feynman said anyone who thinks they understand quantum mech's has not read it properly) and as an empirical approach was taken I doubt that anyone really understands how they work.

Anyway I fitted mine early today to the Orelino's and will report later.

Cheers

Paul

[christoffe]

It says so in this post, including the mention of loss of gain:http://www.phasure.com/index.php?action=post;quote=32240;topic=3026.0;num_replies=68;sesc=1f48dd3a878ffdfd1e9814fa31887d94

Hi Coen,

I'm back with the XXH volume (gain) to my normal setting between -33 and -31,5 for my accustomed SPL.
("burn in" of the cable or hallucinations?? During the night the ear reacts different.)

Joachim.

[PeterSt]

Question before ordering any cable / adapter etc. My audio setup at the moment:

NOS1 > 0.6m IC > AMP1 > 2 pairs spkr cable > SPKR + AMP2,3 > SPKR LF section(s)
AMP1, 16W dual mono for each 8" Coax driver
AMP2,3 200W plate amp(s) for 2x12" (sub)Woofer sections

What reflections I have in 0.6 mtr interconnects ? (pure silver in foamy ptfe, twisted pr)

I can change above setup by using 2 sets of IC's: 0.6 + 3 mtr pairs - eliminating one pair of speaker
cables (high signal) but adding 3 mtrs low signal. Or using same lengths IC's perhaps ?

Hi George,

This could be one bridge too far for me at this moment;

Let's say that "we" are used to reflections in the digital (connections) realm. This, with the exception of analogue cable TV where you can see it (ghosting). The point here is that a digital signal is about "high" and "low" (voltage) which represents the 0's and 1's. This is not allowed to be disturbed. Thus, when a 1 becomes a 0 because of interfering reflections (or noise etc.) then the connection does not work any more. This besides jitter, which we can see as crucial as what we talk about in the analogue domain. So, in the digital domain reflections also imply jitter and this is as out of control (and as important) as what we talk about now - the analogue domain.

For jitter we deal with that in quite another way and this is "solve it elsewhere". Think like re-generating the signal further down the line in good fashion. With digital this can be done once the 0's and 1's come across in well fahsion;
In analogue we can't do that, because no "good signal" can be recognized (there's no definition for that).

Because the re-generating of the signal can't always be done - or actually most often it can't be done (don 't think audio now) all sorts of analysers and test equipment exist for it. So, a signal is set up, and such an analyser can measure the reflections hence quality of the signal. Think a bit like empirical analysis and how to "tune" things.
When we'd would like to know how this works out in audio (analogue), we'd need such a (same) analyser.
N.b.: I have been looking for 3 days in a row for something affordable, but I'm afraid it needs some fund raising first; second hand somewhere in between 5-7K euros.
After that I would be able to create the best connection for one type of connection (known equipment from front to end) *or* I will be able to see that things don't matter at all in such and so conditions - actually like I (we) try to do with the exact 50 Ohm cable.

Notice that it would be about the most cheap connection possible (because it's all just technical stuff without snake oil) like our cables from now would cost a few euros when self made. So first spend that 5-7K to next be able to make a cheap cable which by guarantee is the best.

All 'n all George, I can not answer your questions. One thing maybe : It will never be the best to connect two "loads" to one source. So keep your one interlink as is (and replace that), and not connect other amplifiers to that same "source" (= DAC).
The "bridge too far" is also about what happens with the high level connections, which of course are very different to begin with (think about the impedance relation). Generally this is harmless in itself but that too undoubtedly can be improved upon vastly. Or like with the loudspeaker cables in general (again see that Empirical Audio page).

Regards,
Peter