Mani's Orelo MkII speakers

[PeterSt]

Sure Mani, that filling will theoretically have shifted the LF response more upwards. Not that I thought about that ...
But it is very logical of course; if your finding is that the LF response went more tight of it, it can only mean that less vibrations occur and those vibrations imply LF again (but is distortion).
And not that I feel anything vibrate without the filling, but I suppose your findings are just those. So ...

Ok ...

In any event, something that no-one has yet talked about is the LF DSP. Weren't we going to be exploring all sorts of options and user configurations here?

Ok ...


Peter


PS: And good that you did not perceive any additional negatives about shifting them more to the back wall. Quite crazy eh ?

[PeterSt]

Hey Mani,

This morning I woke up with thoughts of how to approach this all, still thinking "there is more". But your 10m interlinks kept buzzing through my head and I took up the idea of asking you to try normal short ones.

30 minutes later I slowly drove my car down the driveway seeing the peaceful view on my left, and then I knew ...

You use 10 meters of "single ended" interlinks.

Yep, and nobody saw it - me neither.

All may look like balanced but it really is not because the amps at the other end are not; the provision for XLR is only there because people may have the (expensive) XLR interlinks so they can keep on using it, but that is really all.
So nothing is balanced and now 10 meters is ... out of line ?

I thus wanted to ask you anyway to try normal lengths (like 2m) before any next other trials, so please do. But it is not a matter of trying any more I'm afraid. But for the good cause now so I'm sure you won't object much.

Peter

[manisandher]

Hey Peter, I'll bring the PC and NOS1a back into the room and try with short ICs. Should be able to try this today...

Mani.

[manisandher]

OK, PC and NOS1a back in listening room. I'm using 2m ICs and a 1m USB cable.

I'm not sure if the LF level has increased. But I think the sound overall is slightly cleaner with better dynamics.

But really so much is now different (totally different make of ICs, regular house AC mains vs. dedicated, vibrations from room, etc) that it's hard to make any definitive conclusions. My strong suspicion is that most of the change in sound is down to the change in AC power.

Will be back after I've tried a few things...

Mani.

[PeterSt]

regular house AC mains vs. dedicated

Mani, maybe premature, but I wonder why this particular change. I mean, yes I can imagine that this is "necessary" now, but this would imply that previously (say 6 months ago) you also used the normal house AC ... which I can't believe.

Again, I can imagine that it is not easy to change back to the well fashioned set up, and I also don't see how suddenly your PC had to go upstairs while it has always been in the basement.
Btw, I only now read in your pevious post "PC and". If that had occurred to me earlier I would have made a remark about it right away. So apologies I did not see it.

But of course you should not allow apples and oranges (you knew that) - already not for psychological/placebo reasons (harder to think of in advance).

But you are trying a few things ...
Peter

[manisandher]

Yep, in an ideal world I would keep things as consistent as possible and only change one thing at a time. But it's not so easy now.

For example, after deciding that only the speakers would sit in the main room, I only fed two AC cables from my dedicated mains in the basement through to the main room. At the moment they have IEC plugs on each. But I need at least 5 AC cables with IEC plugs now (with the PC and NOS1a in the room). So yes, I could take off an IEC plug from one of the cables and fit a 5-way block instead, but this takes time and I really need to be sure that it's worth the effort before I do this. And I cannot just fed a few more cables up without taking the floorboards up again... not going to happen!

But I've got another idea first...

Mani.

[manisandher]

OK, I'm pretty certain that the 10m ICs I was using originally have no adverse effect on the LF performance whatsoever.

I have a PurePower 2000i unit - this is an AC regenerator with battery pack (actually a glorified UPS). Working purely in battery mode (input AC cable physically disconnected, so floated earth), the sound is strikingly similar to that with my dedicated AC mains. Certainly there is no obvious increase in LF energy or extension. (Running the system from the house AC mains or the PurePower in 'regenerator mode' adds a little more 'brilliance' and 'shine' to the sound. Although quite pleasing on the ear, this takes the balance between LF and MF/HF even further away from what I want.)

However, I still think there is a slight increase in dynamics overall with the PC and NOS1a in the room (irrespective of how the system is powered). I'm assuming that this can only be down to shorter ICs (2m vs. 10m) and/or room vibrations. I'm going to put everything back in its original place in the basement and take another listen.

Will be back...

Mani.

[PeterSt]

Mani,

I am dead sure I confused you quite a bit, but the remark about the interlinks being too long wasn't even related to the LF - no matter how logical it is/was to think so. Such long interlinks - not balanced - are just not allowed at all (eh, period ?).

I can take it a step further though by referring to your "balance" (and worse now). So while I am preparing to help out with the better LF (still softly assumed this is just needed outside of the breaking-in) it is of no use to do that when first something else is wrong. So it is only that I was hinted at your long interlinks in the first place that might be related to LF issues and which thus has to be out of the way (just test it) but when I next thought about "this is not balanced at all" it just *has* to be out of the way first.
Well, unless you want sub-optimal sound - this is up to you of course.

But please, go find ONE source which will admit that such long interlinks are even remotely OK *when not balanced*. It will be one big pile of (picked up) noise in the first place. And no, this time not audible accidentally (ha).
It is only so stupid that nobody saw it - and especially me.

Grr
Peter

[manisandher]

Ah OK Peter. In that case I'll start thinking seriously about how to get the NOS1a back into the room permanently.

The reason I brought the PC up from the basement was because I'm currently using a 3.5m USB cable. 6 months ago when the NOS1 (not "a") was in the room, I was having to use a 5m USB cable (this is the minimum length I can get away with easily).  I was told by Pat (at AR-T) that this is simply too long and that the max I should be using for USB is 3.5m.

In an ideal world, I'd really like to keep the PC in the basement (it really is 'Le Monster') and have only the NOS1a in the room with the speakers. Peter do you have any thoughts on using a 5m USB cable with the NOS1a?

Mani.

[PeterSt]

Mani, as how it ever was 7 meters works. But I never checked that again. No reasons that anything will have changed though.

It is completely correct that a longer cable may (or even will)imply reflections and more jitter on the USB link, but the time this influences is behind us. Unless of course sheer errors occur but you can see that in the Control Panel.

But do it by steps. You (or Pat) are always allowed to be correct in the end.
And notice that only 3 months ago I would have said the same, but ony from the noise = audio jitter point of view. And not so many talk about *that* (and not even Pat I'd say).
But try it. And also think it over carefully. I mean, it took you long enough to sort out your current set up, and the more stupid it is that at least I did not see it. Ok, this has been the last time I mentioned this.

Peter

PS: Another thing about this, and not really meant to additionally confuse (but it will) : The 10m is allowed to be not detremintal *if* you only listen to it through a well broken in mid/high. And I certainly know how much that is still going to differ. So what now will be fairly grey (up to unlisteable) will be sprankling after a month or so. And I don't think you can really judge without that happening first. One conclusion of this moment could be fair though : for the LF it doesn't matter much. So we can proceed with that part I think.

[manisandher]

Thanks Peter.

Unless of course sheer errors occur but you can see that in the Control Panel.

I'd like to keep an eye on errors if possible. But Unattended kills the Phasure USB Control Panel. Is there a way of keeping it active, maybe by listing it in the 'Keep this service' box in the XX settings area? If so, what should I put in there?

Mani.

[PeterSt]

In the Keep Processes list :

(phasurenoscpl)

But this looks overdone to me. It is sufficient to play a couple of minutes in Attended and watch it from there.
We ourselves use 20 minutes to judge all to be OK.

If you see errors right at the start of playback - don't worry about those. After that all should remain "stable" (no change).

Peter

[manisandher]

Thanks Peter. I'll just use Attended - of course, it makes no difference in SQ with the NOS1a 

Mani.

[PeterSt]

It is not even about that. Just checking for errors for a few minutes is enough - that's all.

[PeterSt]

We will take on a few things through email from here. So if it gets quiet ...
(then Mani is probably repairing his windows)