World Cup in Brasil

[christoffe]

Congrats

Netherlands 5 - Spain 1

Unbelievable

Joachim

[manisandher]

Great game. What the World Cup is all about.

Mani.

[juanpmar]

Tremendous defeat, we will see if we can overcome it...

Congratulation to the Dutch team, they were much better this time.

Juan

[PeterSt]

At some stage I started to feel embarrassed and hoped for "not another one !". Not even sure why but something like "not more needed to convince". I'm sure that for me it also related to those genuine desparate faces which were in focus each few minutes (poor goal keeper).

No, this was rare. Very rare. Maybe I lift it to an unauthorized level but at 70 or so minutes into the match I made the remark "isn't this this 3rd faul so far only ?". And a few minutes later "isn't this the 2nd corner ?".
I didn't really count, but this is how it started to come across at some stage. The very very best match without any real fauling and just football. And that we kicked in a few became second cause; I think I wouldn't have cared less if it had been the other way around (ahum).

But for Dutchmen I think this showed something totally since ages : no dominance of elder more experienced and therefore everybody feeling free to show his best. No sign of multi milion income and snobbish behaviour. So this is what I have seen since maybe 1988 and that now all was gone.

I can tell you, the past few days the news was all over with very few signs of "orange" accessoires from super markets and the "why". A bit of a puzzle but it is true. I myself noticed a very strict 2 cars orange-decorated in the past weeks. TWO. This, while previously it would be TWO-NOT.
So the whole of Holland has given up on this stupidly behaving hautain football players ? I don't know.
But now THIS ?

Actually it was totally outragious and maybe it is a one time happening only. Again, for me it was only the observing of the Spanish with allure with faces like "No man, we just can't do anything about it; let's play nice and don't blame anyone. This is a super power we are not up to, but no worries - nobody will be up to that.". And really *that* in itself is at least for me the greatest victory this game in general could have received; just that super fine attitude.

For us Dutch this extended to interviews afterwards. This was really strange - maybe fed with coincidence - but about a math like preparation to at least this match which from two different angles was layed out like "yes, but this is exactly how it was predicted by the coach and it couldn't have gone otherwise". Easy talk in aftermath. But later the coach (Van Gaal) told the same but with all kinds of argumentation and due changed strategy when needed and such and so would happen and it was weird. Math like. Of course, this *is* how football is run these days, but this was just too close to predicted truth to be real. Still it was (also still : easily said in aftermath).

For Dutch insiders, I will add that especially this last year's competition has been rather srange; all teams underwhelm by far and "european" it is all nothing this year (the past years also but it gets worse). What seems to have come from that is very "open" coaches who now suddenly emphasize how, where and why the other team is better, when they lose themselves. To me this is new. It almost shows the same as what I described above about the Spanish faces; just blame yourself instead of having bad luck, stupid referees and the like. But this is NOT how the media approach it. So only yesterday morning I heard about a complete conspiracy theory how the Dutch for sure would be out soon - only because there's a fine Dutch referee (regarded the best out there ?) who was granted this WC job for maybe unreal reasons, and now all the other referrees controlling matches where the Dutch would play would cause Holland to lose.
That nasty atmosphere.
Of course this match starts out with a penalty against the Dutch, but alas ...

And about that one last remark :
That goal from Spain which was rejected beause of offside ... this was an (I say) rare occasion I didn't notice it myself. Actually nobody did much. But it still was as the replay of the linesman showed. I saw nothing from the referees that I judged as wrong. This is personal, but still this is so often so different.

So for me this was 100% about how it should be. Of course I am biased but I try to see through that.
100%

Peter

[christoffe]

Some comments from British papers:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/holland/10899097/Holland-coach-Louis-van-Gaals-relaxed-approach-pays-off-as-World-Cup-holders-Spain-are-destroyed-in-Salvador.html
&
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/14/holland-risky-strategy-spain-world-cup-group-b

[juanpmar]

Hi Peter, the first thing that we all must do is to congratulate the Dutch. They were better and deserved to win. I would like to emphasize that they deserved the victory for their attitude and for the lousy game of the Spanish team, mostly in the second half.

I find it a bit difficult to properly understand all the arguments of your post, probably it is due to my English. Obviously I like football and follow the Spanish team but I don´t feel able to make a sociological study from it, could be interesting though, I guess.

There was a pending revenge between us and I understand the exaltation of the victory on your side, more so if such a resounding victory is against the current world champion.
I don´t know about the issues in reference to pressures on the referees or attitudes snobs from the players and I don´t know either if you are talking about of the Spanish players in this regard. My impression is that both the players and the coach of the Spanish national team always have a respectful behavior with all the other teams. That's probably why they became champions.

As I said in another moment we'll see if we can overcome this defeat, this is a championship and yesterday was just the first match. We are not definitively defeated yet and we will see very soon how far we can go.

Juan

[PeterSt]

Hi Juan,

I don´t know about the issues in reference to pressures on the referees or attitudes snobs from the players and I don´t know either if you are talking about of the Spanish players in this regard.

I was talking about the Dutch only !

Regards,
Peter

[Jud]

I was as surprised as everyone else.  Since I did not have a strong rooting interest, what I appreciated were the quality of the goals, and also the two late saves by the Spanish goalkeeper after all was already long lost - just pure fierce pride and wonderful to see.

Looking forward to seeing Messi, though because of a change in the TV channels I get and his injury, I've seen none of him this season.  Meanwhile Cristiano Ronaldo is doing great and everyone thinks Neymar may now be the world's best, though both have nagging injuries.  So Juan, which one should I expect to do best?

[juanpmar]

Hi Jud,

Casillas, the Spanish goalkeeper is probably one of the best in the world. Sad to see him make some mistakes, which is rare, it seems that he is not in his best shape right now, anyway always has and will have brilliant moments.

As for what player among the ones you mentioned will be the star of this world cup, it looks like will be Neymar because Brazil "must" win the cup, also because he is only 22 and is able to put the team on his back and finally because the team plays for him. However, although Brazil has many advantages playing at home I do not think it's the best team in this tournament.

The Spanish league (championship), is very hard and ended recently. Also the European Cup with two Spanish clubs playing the final ended just a few week ago, it brings the consequent fatigue of the players. So Messi, Christiano, Neymar that are playing in Spain can be resent due to so many games played. Seeing the way Holland played against an exhausted and partly aged Spain I would say that should be taken into account also Robben and Van Persie.
Anyway, still must show up many important teams, starting with tonight's game between Italy and England.

Regards,
Juan

[manisandher]

Anyway, still must show up many important teams, starting with tonight's game between Italy and England.

My wife is really excited. I have a totally different perspective. Growing up in England in the early '70s I experienced quite a bit or racism from uneducated idiots, many of whom would dress themselves up in the red and white England flag. Even though I was born and bred in this country, and really do love it to bits, I find it hard calling myself 'English' - 'British' yes, 'English' no. Anyway, since I was a little boy, I've always supported Brazil in the World Cup. I'm sure I was almost as gutted as any Brazilian back in 1982, to see such a wonderful team being humiliated by Paulo Rossi.

So, I really have no emotional connection to the England team. But for my wife's sake, and as retribution for what happened to Brazil in 1982, I hope England win.

Haha...

Mani.

[christoffe]

Spain: 0
Chile:  2

What's going on in Brasil?

Joachim

[acg]

Netherlands 3 Australia 2.

Not too bad a result for us Aussies, and pretty close in the end.  Still a minor sport in my part of the world and I doubt the World Cup will see the back page of any newspaper over here with three other football codes to compete with and "State Of Origin" Rugby League in full swing at the moment.

I played soccer competitively for 9 years in my youth and quite enjoyed the game...I wish I was still that fit now!!


Hey Joachim, I reckon Australia did better against the Dutch than we did against Chile...what is it with Spain that can't win a game this year??  That is quite surprising!


Anthony

[juanpmar]

Spain was tired physically and mentally. We never played as we used to do. Our time is over for now but we, the Spaniards, must be grateful for the last fantastic six years.

Regards
Juan

[christoffe]

Netherlands 3 Australia 2.
Hey Joachim, I reckon Australia did better against the Dutch than we did against Chile...


Anthony

That is true. The Aussies played really an aggressive fair  tackling. The Dutch were tired and not so ambitious as against Spain, and they underestimated the Aussies.
A  2 : 2  would have been fair result for both sides in this game.

What I do not like absolutely, are the "divers" (Goetze etc.).

I'm sure do believe that we see more surprising results.

Joachim

[christoffe]

Spain was tired physically and mentally. We never played as we used to do. Our time is over for now but we, the Spaniards, must be grateful for the last fantastic six years.

Regards
Juan

Correct, but the "Tiki-Taka" time is over.
You saw how Bayern Munich beat FC Barcelona in the Champions League with a different tactic last year.
This year Real Madrid smashed the "Tiki-Taka" team Bayern Munich (with Pepe Guardiola), and then Holland Spain a couple of days ago.
But Spain will come back with their wonderful technicians.

Joachim