In anticipation of my new Orelino speakers

[PeterSt]

I would have sworn that my anti-cables were the most transparent cables I had.

So ?
Mine (for LS cables) didn't work out my a mile also; same reasoning I had in advance. But what if they filter less ?

Or do you mean <1m length???

My view : all overdoing things. All you need to take care of is the capacitance (hence what the NOS1 can drive) and for 100% sure this won't matter for anything between 1cm and 5 meters. Beyond that ? take into account that capacitance (which you did I think).

Peter

[manisandher]

But what if they filter less ?

Well again, this is where my method 2) comes into its own. If they indeed 'filter less', then when placed in series with another (any) cable, the sound should not change fundamentally. But it does. And there's the rub.

The cables that truly 'filter less' MUST be those that affect the sound the least when placed in series with another (any) cable... no?

Mani.

[manisandher]

Tomorrow is going to be a sad day. Gerd Sauermann is coming over to collect the mono amps he lovingly built for me.

Well, Gerd has just been... and gone, with my beautiful mono amplifiers 

It was an absolute pleasure to see him again. His enthusiasm for our hobby is contagious.

The cables that truly 'filter less' MUST be those that affect the sound the least when placed in series with another (any) cable... no?

Actually, Gerd disagreed with this. His main focus is in the time domain, and not the frequency domain. He suggested the following scenario. Imagine a 1m cable that was smearing the signal in the time domain (most cables do this, according to Gerd). Now imagine placing an identical 1m cable in series with this. There would probably be no change in sound (or very little). According to my 'hypothesis', this shows that the second cable is perfect. But of course, it isn't. It just isn't good enough in the time domain to show the issue up.

So, I'm now going to go for plan A. I will try all permutations of cables and NOS1 positioning to determine which is the best configuration. I asked Gerd how I could determine the 'best', without a reference. His answer was to compare directly to real instruments playing in the room.

Hmmmm...

Mani.

[juanpmar]

I recently discovered some cables with a capacitance as low as 47pF/m. The cables are hand made by order and this is what the technician who build them told me when I asked him about the capacitance of this cables (this is a translation, sorry if there is some technical fault):

"The previous version had a Star Quad (4 twisted conductors) geometry with a common braided shield. The new one is a miniaturized version of the above: same metal, same insulation, same cotton filling, but being thinner I can use two separate conductors per channel, each with their own shield and each with positive and negative signal in braiding pair. By reducing the size I can use an additional wire for connecting the grounds, and thus the shielding of each tube is connected only at the end of the destination (male connector), and so the only effective capacitance is the one  which occurs between the stranded conductors: 47pF/m, unlike the previous cable that´s about 50pF/m between conductors and 100pF/m between conductors and shield."

This cables are the most neutral and clean I ever had. I compared this cables with the AntiCables and found the AntiCables adding some kind of brilliance, same as Mani said. As a plus they are cheap. Now all my cables are made by this guy including the power cable for the NOS1 with an L shape connector which make it easier to route the interconnection cables without touching the power cord.

If anyone is interested in this cables PM to juanpmar@gmail.com. I´ll be glad to help.

Regards,
Juan

[manisandher]

If anyone is interested in this cables PM to...

Hi Juan, I'll reply to your PM tomorrow.

Cheers, Mani.

[manisandher]

Just a quick note to say that title of this thread isn't really accurate. I've actually ordered a pair of Orelo MkII speakers from Peter and not the Orelino speakers. Not sure what 'clean' sub-20Hz bass is going to sound like in my room... but really looking forward to finding out.

Mani.

[juanpmar]

If anyone is interested in this cables PM to...

Hi Juan, I'll reply to your PM tomorrow.

Cheers, Mani.

Thanks Mani
Juan

[Jud]

Actually, Gerd disagreed with this. His main focus is in the time domain, and not the frequency domain. He suggested the following scenario. Imagine a 1m cable that was smearing the signal in the time domain (most cables do this, according to Gerd).

So, I'm now going to go for plan A. I will try all permutations of cables and NOS1 positioning to determine which is the best configuration. I asked Gerd how I could determine the 'best', without a reference. His answer was to compare directly to real instruments playing in the room.

Hmmmm...

Mani.

Apologies for broken record mode: This is exactly what Mapleshade/Omega Mikro say about most cables; they also say their cables are built to minimize this time domain smearing.  (It's one reason their cables look so minimalist, as they identify the insulation used on most cables as a culprit in smearing the signal.  They refer to it as "dielectric pumping," where the dielectric acts as a capacitor, charging up when the signal passes through the adjoining cable, then discharging back into the cable out of time.)

[manisandher]

Update...

I've been using a pair of 10m cables (with a signal-signal capacitance of only 47pF/m) that Juan had built up for me  by a technician he knows in Spain (thanks so much Juan). These cables are seriously good and very reasonably priced. They sound at least as good as any 1m cables I have here (including the anticables). In any event, having had them in place for the last couple of weeks now, I'm confident that these 10m cables have little or no detrimental affect on the sound. So I made the decision that the NOS1 was definitely going to be placed 10m away in the little 'studio' in my basement - pretty much totally isolated from the listening room. I completed the necessary work yesterday. The listening room is now pretty clean, with nothing but the speakers showing from the listening position (currently the amps are there too) and the monitor & keyboard on the shelves behind (see below). The PC sits in the basement and the NOS1 in the basement 'studio'. I created a little diagram to show this (see below), but it probably confuses more than helps.

Cutting a long story short, I'm ready for the Orelo MkII speakers!

Mani.

[PeterSt]

Yes, I think those interlinks Juan can provide are good; he told me about them and the way it is done and I recall I liked that. Just give him a call I'd say.

Peter

[PeterSt]

Hey Mani, nice !

Not sure what that "earth" is really and what you put it for, but I assume it is not important ?

Just a small notice I only realize now I see that picture with the wooden floor :

I intended to make photos of it - and should do that today really - but see below for a quicky ...

This is one of the wings of my currently disabled speakers (because they receive the final production version upgrade today) and you see holes in there. These holes are meant to fill up the inside with grit or sand or anything. This is no must and I myself did not do it so far (but should do it this afternoon), and obviously this is to make the lot more robust and/or better coupling to the floor (hey, for what's that worth of course, but especially in your situation it should be for the better (no DAC on that floor)).

However, the point - to some extend - is that this will be quite heavy. (One) Speaker itself is roughly 75Kg/165lbs and on estimate filling up those wings may add 100Kg/220lbs easily (depends on the material used for the filling).

So now we are at 175Kg/385lbs for one speaker, and it is for you to decide on how many pressure points that will rest (but normally 3).

It is only since yesterday that I am thinking this over myself, and maybe it is too crazy to do it. So, it is not necessary but should be better again - and made for it.
But a few of those pressure points on that wooden floor with that weight ? maybe not.

Btw notice that there's also the option to not use footers at all and thus spread the weight over the whole of the surface (back bracket and wings).

Lastly, nothing in those wings vibrates anyway that I can notice, so ...

Regards,
Peter

[juanpmar]

Update...

I've been using a pair of 10m cables (with a signal-signal capacitance of only 47pF/m) that Juan had built up for me  by a technician he knows in Spain (thanks so much Juan). These cables are seriously good and very reasonably priced. They sound at least as good as any 1m cables I have here (including the anticables). In any event, having had them in place for the last couple of weeks now, I'm confident that these 10m cables have little or no detrimental affect on the sound...
Mani.

Thank you Mani, I´m happy that the cables are working well in your system. If the cables work well also with the Orelo speakers I´ll be very proud and happy to share a place among such a high quality components.

Yes, I think those interlinks Juan can provide are good; he told me about them and the way it is done and I recall I liked that. Just give him a call I'd say.

Peter

Thank you Peter, I appreciate your words.

In case someone is interested in the interconnect cables, speaker cables or power cords please send me a PM.

Best regards,
Juan

[PeterSt]

Juan, maybe obfuscate that email address somewhat, otherwise you'll be offered more Viagra there than what's good for you.
I think.

Peter

[manisandher]

Not sure what that "earth" is really and what you put it for, but I assume it is not important ?

Well, this whole endeavour is about vibration control and I just wanted to show that the PC in the basement and the NOS1 in the 'studio' both sit on the earth foundations of the house - i.e. a solid floor. The speakers in the listening room, meanwhile, sit on a suspended wooden floor. What I didn't show though were the two 'sleeper' brick walls in centre of the dead space below the wooden floor that support the joists. Although suspended, it's a solid floor that's capable of withstanding quite some pounding.

I doubt I'll fill the wings with anything immediately. But I'd be interested in hearing your feedback on the difference, if any. If I do decide to fill them, I'll definitely use them without the footers and have the weight distributed over the back bracket and wings (I may do this anyway, even without the filling).

Mani.

[juanpmar]

Juan, maybe obfuscate that email address somewhat, otherwise you'll be offered more Viagra there than what's good for you.
I think.

Peter

hahaha, no problem Peter I could always resell the Viagra, actually, not to brag but fortunately I do not need it yet. I remove the email just in case 

I can be found clicking on my username.

Juan