USB to PC chassis ground ? (noise) - The biggest change ever !

[PeterSt]

(crackshaft)

Why did I say crackshaft even twice while I certainly know it is crankshaft ?
Anyway there will be way more typos as this was an email to Alain. Also notice that this responded to Alain telling me he deleted some posts. So if things seem somewhat out of context ... they just are to you all.

Peter

[AlainGr]

I thought you meant that a crankshaft could break But I understood

[PeterSt]

Haha.

There is this black wire, that starts from the DAC USB port, passes through the "H" and lands at the corner of a printed circuit, tied alone to a screw... Is it this I have to remove and isolate ?

Alain, Yes. And this DOES matter because after this nothing sounded anymore ( from Windows 8 ).

Peter

[PeterSt]

Peter, have you thought about the possibility to isolate the different plates of the NOS1 with some kind of absorbing material bonded to the inner side of the plates and even with some rubber tape in the junctions of the plates?.

Hi Juan, Yes. Ask Gerd Sauermann who is very keen on these things. He even handed me some material to try but I have to admit I never did. Most probably because my focus can't be on two (SQ) things at the same time. But I think it is crucial especially between the NOS1's chassis and the cover (from that too you can just feel how devistating it can be).

I suppose Mani has applied it (Gerd visiting him).

Thanks ...
Peter

[AlainGr]

Haha.

There is this black wire, that starts from the DAC USB port, passes through the "H" and lands at the corner of a printed circuit, tied alone to a screw... Is it this I have to remove and isolate ?

Alain, Yes. And this DOES matter because after this nothing sounded anymore (from Windows .

Peter

? I sure hope something will sound somewhat...

[juanpmar]

Hi Juan,

I did not think about this... Increasing the mass of an object could affect its resonance ?

Alain

Hi Alain, I could not answer with the laws of physics in hand, maybe others can do it, but what I can tell you is what I have seen in other electronic components, some of them have placed plates of some material glued to the inner part of the component plates with the intention to change the resonance or decrease the vibration.

Peter, have you thought about the possibility to isolate the different plates of the NOS1 with some kind of absorbing material bonded to the inner side of the plates and even with some rubber tape in the junctions of the plates?.

Hi Juan, Yes. Ask Gerd Sauermann who is very keen on these things. He even handed me some material to try but I have to admit I never did. Most probably because my focus can't be on two (SQ) things at the same time. But I think it is crucial especially between the NOS1's chassis and the cover (from that too you can just feel how devistating it can be).

I suppose Mani has applied it (Gerd visiting him).

Thanks ...
Peter

Hi Peter, I could imaging that you already thought about it but what do you mean with "devastating"?, do you mean that isolating the plates could be for the worst?

Here I post some pic with the dampers, the rubber balls feet and some Vibrapods underneath.

Juan

[PeterSt]

Haha.

There is this black wire, that starts from the DAC USB port, passes through the "H" and lands at the corner of a printed circuit, tied alone to a screw... Is it this I have to remove and isolate ?

Alain, Yes. And this DOES matter because after this nothing sounded anymore (from Windows .

Peter

? I sure hope something will sound somewhat...

Uhm, that :cool: smiley always appears automatically when mentioning Windows 8 between braces; I adjusted the post you quoted from. Quite confusing eh ?

[PeterSt]

Hi Peter, I could imaging that you already thought about it but what do you mean with "devastating"?, do you mean that isolating the plates could be for the worst?

Juan, No. The other way around. It is metal on metal which should not be and the way it sounds when you put it on without screwing in the bolds and tapping on it already tells what it really does (no matter the bolds are tight).

Peter

[juanpmar]

Peter, the dumpers I use have a felt underneath and the metal is demagnetized, there is no metal touching the metal plate of the NOS1. When I tap on the NOS1 plates with the dampers on it there is a deaf sound not like a metal sheet vibrating.
If you were talking about the plates to be attached to the inner part of the NOS1 what I wanted to say is some kind of dampening material glued to the inner part of the NOS1 plates.

This little brochure about Damping Tecniques for Noise and Vibration Control is very instructive http://www.earsc.com/pdfs/engineering/understandingdamping.pdf

Juan

[Gerard]

USB3 (*Silverstone *both* sides isolated

What do you mean with this Peter? The bracket and the one inside the NOS1?

 

[PeterSt]

Juan,

If you were talking about the plates to be attached to the inner part of the NOS1 what I wanted to say is some kind of dampening material glued to the inner part of the NOS1 plates.

I was only talking about that.
Peter

[nik.d]

It took me some time to remember where I saw the levitation board.
And I thought Leo was really using it:
 

Moon Audio Anti Gravity (Magnetic Levitation) Equipment Shelf
(Series One sold out, new version still to come)

[Nick]

I needed a PCIe USB3 card for another PC so I took the opportunity to get hold of a Silverstone. I removed the clock from the Silverstone and connected a Dexa coax. With two PCIe cards each hooked up with coax leads for the Dexa a quick swap was now possible for comparison purposes. So I could swap the cards almost in the time it takes to reboot.

The result I can hear no difference at all nothing, zippo, zilch not a sausage (probably that does not translate in to Dutch ha ha).

But it is possible to hear the very smallest of differences in this system (as both Nick and Mani will confirm) - if I move the PCIe Dexa clock just a few inches away from where it is mounted the sound clearly is not as good (presumably RFI affecting the clock).

So there a couple of interesting results: -

1. With Q5=1 if I move the PC Dexa clock to a worse location (i.e. more jitter) it is clearly audible.

2. With Dexa clock applied to a Silverstone I can hear no difference compared with a.n.other PCIe card.

Maybe this is not exhaustive but interesting none the less.

By the way removing the clock from the Silverstone card is a doddle (with 2 soldering irons) it would be my first choice card for applying a Dexa mod - much easier than the other cards I have looked at.

P

Hey Paul,

That's one less job to do here then!

I would guess that the Crystal on the Silverstone card is a little better than on other standard cards. Remove and use an external clock and  the advantage may be levelled out.

Regards position of the dexa clock, crystals are hugely ambient and electrical noise sensitive. As an example whilst trying to tune two DIY built clocks to run at the same speed at either end of the USB link the clock speed would go haywire just putting a hand or screw driver near a to a VCXO module that I was trimming on the 'scope the wave form also became slight less stable.

I finally got round to implementing proper shielding of my audio and 2 USB Dexas clocks today. There are some new components in the clocks now that need to run for a few days, but even with this the difference in performance already is massive. I just cannot believe what has happened  its given about half the benefit of upgraded clocks again .... I'll post on this properly soon.

Nick.

[acg]

I needed a PCIe USB3 card for another PC so I took the opportunity to get hold of a Silverstone. I removed the clock from the Silverstone and connected a Dexa coax. With two PCIe cards each hooked up with coax leads for the Dexa a quick swap was now possible for comparison purposes. So I could swap the cards almost in the time it takes to reboot.

The result I can hear no difference at all nothing, zippo, zilch not a sausage (probably that does not translate in to Dutch ha ha).

But it is possible to hear the very smallest of differences in this system (as both Nick and Mani will confirm) - if I move the PCIe Dexa clock just a few inches away from where it is mounted the sound clearly is not as good (presumably RFI affecting the clock).

So there a couple of interesting results: -

1. With Q5=1 if I move the PC Dexa clock to a worse location (i.e. more jitter) it is clearly audible.

2. With Dexa clock applied to a Silverstone I can hear no difference compared with a.n.other PCIe card.

Maybe this is not exhaustive but interesting none the less.

By the way removing the clock from the Silverstone card is a doddle (with 2 soldering irons) it would be my first choice card for applying a Dexa mod - much easier than the other cards I have looked at.

P

Thanks for this report Paul...it is something that I have been wondering about.  Seems to me that this is some evidence that the Silverstone "sound" is being caused by clock quality i.e. the clock on the standard Silverstone card may be a better quality than the clock on other cards. 

Cheers,

Anthony

[acg]

Hey Paul,

That's one less job to do here then!

I would guess that the Crystal on the Silverstone card is a little better than on other standard cards. Remove and use an external clock and  the advantage may be levelled out.

Regards position of the dexa clock, crystals are hugely ambient and electrical noise sensitive. As an example whilst trying to tune two DIY built clocks to run at the same speed at either end of the USB link the clock speed would go haywire just putting a hand or screw driver near a to a VCXO module that I was trimming on the 'scope the wave form also became slight less stable.

I finally got round to implementing proper shielding of my audio and 2 USB Dexas clocks today. There are some new components in the clocks now that need to run for a few days, but even with this the difference in performance already is massive. I just cannot believe what has happened  its given about half the benefit of upgraded clocks again .... I'll post on this properly soon.

Nick.

Nick, you could try a card using the TI controller.  The newer tech may prove useful but it is a long shot I think.

Anthony