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Author Topic: SQ of 1.186, best ever! (Again)  (Read 168621 times)
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Arjan
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« Reply #90 on: February 15, 2014, 09:41:11 am »

Hi Peter,
Your new found settings are really good. Now W7 has similar 3D sq as I get from W8, without the negatieve highs of W8.

Lowest SFS for me is 0.6!
Regards, Arjan
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PeterSt
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« Reply #91 on: February 19, 2014, 09:53:20 am »

Guys,

To me it looks like you all have dozed in at attempting other settings. I mean, I don't hear much of "hey, try this !" any more. Of course, this can be because everybody is happy, but I wouldn't go about it like that; now it will take relative ages before I myself find something new. But when you don't do it, I still do. So here - and mind you, this is Windows 7 :

Set your NOS1 Driver Control Panel buffer to 2ms (if that doesn't work, then 4ms). This is to allow for the really low SFS.
Next set your SFS to 0.1.
Notice : I came from 0.4 and tried 4 only for one other setting, so my now dialed 0.1 is just that one other attempt.

The difference is crazy once again. This sounds like Windows 8 in multiple for highs and detail. All becomes super airy and you'll hear it right away. The freshness is like a waterfall.

I seriously feel like being from another planet and not being able to communicate this any more.

Bokko

Referring to that Norwegian speed skater (not his sister) and maybe some debacle on Norway's decisions in the realm of Olympics, I think (but not sure) it was him who experimented skating the 10 Km not by a nice build up and skating equal rounds of around 30 seconds, but do one round in 25 seconds, a next in 36 to catch some breath, and so on. This didn't work.
It is now the same principle I apply for the energy used by the system as a whole in reasoning how the low SFS will be the better one. Net energy used is the lowest (measured) at equal rounds, while my focus has been in that area (energy usage) for maybe 4-5 months now.

In the end it will be about noise again I suppose, but something more should be going on for the reasons of it. I now think like things heating up in that 25 second round, while it only slowly (or too slow) cools down in that round of 36 seconds. The real low SFS (of 0.1, but can be lower) will imply all rounds of 24 which needs some real training of course (system has to be on par) but obviously when that runs, the guy doing all the rounds in 24 seconds will easily win over the guy doing 30 each round.
Something like that.

For difference with W8 I don't recall anything of such a difference; all what happens there is that under SFS=0.4 the sound seems to break up or at least gets too lean. With W7 I didn't notice anything of breaking up, and no way it gets more lean. It does get a 10 times more fresh right away though (which looks similar as more lean, but really is not so in my view). At first sounds of it I thought that for sure I would not be able to stand this for long, but after a second night of listening to this ... what to say.
Even something like Killing me Softly (Roberta Flack) - which is rather old but sounded superb already - has turned into a totally different track with presence unheard. Strange thing (and I notice that with everything) : The track comprises of parts which soundED like adding a lot of hall to make her sound more hollow, mystic and more far away, while now this difference has gone away and I have difficulties to see where those "added hall" parts are. All music is now like this;

Each track I play seems heavily processed to now receive this hall "effect", while actually all what happens is that every artist seems to play in a church suddenly. So, I am sure that what I hear is the mixing and someone who liked to add hall, but if you look at the Flack track you can see that while the mixing engineer thought to carefully add some additional hall at parts of the track, he didn't see that the knob had to be down all the way in the others. Something like that.

Alien P.
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XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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« Reply #92 on: February 19, 2014, 11:56:32 am »

Hey Peter, I'd be more than happy to experiment... but right now, I just don't have the motivation with my currently very compromised setup. You know what I'm waiting for. Once they're here, I'll definitely be doing a lot of experimenting and tuning.

Mani.
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« Reply #93 on: February 19, 2014, 06:05:47 pm »

Hello Peter,
I was already writing my post about  impressions with SFS 0.4  when you posted about SFS 0.1. So I've tried it, and despite some very sporadic skipping,  the sound is fresh, powerful, dynamic and spacious with the the best of both W8 and W7 and even more. I haven't tried heaphones yet but I can imagine the results. So at last  the loudspeakers weren't the culprits nor the amplifier of that strange divergence in SQ with the headphones (my apologies to them).
love this

Regards,

Maxi
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Audio PC -> AsRock Z79 intel i-3 4170  @~800MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, DIY Linear Power Supply. music on LAN /
Engine#4 Special Mode/Q1/-/3/4/5=*30*/-/*1*/*1*/*1*/ Q1Factor = *5* / Dev.Buffer = 1024 /ClockRes = *15ms* /Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect /
SFS = *0,69*  (max 0,69 / Phase Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 1-3 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback
Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / *OSD Off* / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Not the best / Time Stability = not stable / *Custom Filtering low for 176400* / Always Clear Proxy before Playbck = On -> Modified Audiotrak Prodigy HD2 internal soundcard with analog tube buffer (Broskie cathode follower) -> Passive biamplification: Canary Audio CA-301 MkII for highs- mids and Counterpoint SA-100 for lows -> Audiovector M-3 Super / modified Musical Fidelity X-3 (6h6p tubes) -> Grado 1000 headphones.
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« Reply #94 on: February 19, 2014, 06:14:58 pm »

Thank you Maxi.

I too have that very sporadic skipping (like one of such a skip in 3-4 tracks ?). I don't think I recall that from W8. But right now I don't have problems with that (I take it for granted easily).

Regards,
Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #95 on: February 19, 2014, 06:35:01 pm »

Thank you Maxi.

I too have that very sporadic skipping (like one of such a skip in 3-4 tracks ?). I don't think I recall that from W8. But right now I don't have problems with that (I take it for granted easily).

Regards,
Peter

I have a sporadic skipping too with buffer 4. Buffer 2 give's a skipping every 5 sec.
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OriginAE x11v Home build HTCP ~ Asus x79 mobo 3930K 12 core underclock 500 MHz,
16GB, *Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0* *from RAM*, music on music server / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.10*  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core *3-5* / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive *none* (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Not the best (OS from RAM issue) / Time Stability = Off (OS from RAM issue) / Custom Filter Mid 705600 / -> USB3 (Silverstone both sides isolated = Sw#3 of NOS1a = Up) -> *Clairixa USB 15cm* -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 0.70m -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink ->> Metrum Amps ->> Metrum Acoustics ESL Open Baffle.
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« Reply #96 on: February 19, 2014, 06:58:25 pm »

Peter,

The sound is so good and the skipping so sporadic that I can stand it easily. Bear in mind that I came from the vinyl cavern. Happy

Maxi
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Audio PC -> AsRock Z79 intel i-3 4170  @~800MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, DIY Linear Power Supply. music on LAN /
Engine#4 Special Mode/Q1/-/3/4/5=*30*/-/*1*/*1*/*1*/ Q1Factor = *5* / Dev.Buffer = 1024 /ClockRes = *15ms* /Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect /
SFS = *0,69*  (max 0,69 / Phase Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 1-3 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback
Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / *OSD Off* / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Not the best / Time Stability = not stable / *Custom Filtering low for 176400* / Always Clear Proxy before Playbck = On -> Modified Audiotrak Prodigy HD2 internal soundcard with analog tube buffer (Broskie cathode follower) -> Passive biamplification: Canary Audio CA-301 MkII for highs- mids and Counterpoint SA-100 for lows -> Audiovector M-3 Super / modified Musical Fidelity X-3 (6h6p tubes) -> Grado 1000 headphones.
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« Reply #97 on: February 19, 2014, 07:35:35 pm »

Well... I tried this morning and it happened too. I adjusted the NOS1 buffer to 4ms and the SFS to .3 and it seemed to have stopped. But I will have to test this a little more...

BTW, it's not that I don't experiment... But I know that you are so meticulous, patient and better than I to judge about SQ that I find easy to follow your parameters... Happy

Alain
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Desktop with ASUS Sabertooth X79 motherboard,Intel 3930k 6 cores (+ 6) at 1.2 GHZ,32GB ram 1333Mhz,Win 10 pro build 14386 64 bit with no updates,OS + XXHE on external Sata III SSD (Esata), music (WAV) on external 5200 rpm drive through network, OS MInimized, XX with engine 4 adaptive,4096 (buffer size), CPU with scheme 3,Player = Low,Thread = RealTime, Q1 = 14,Q345 = 1,1,1,Q1x=1,Clock res = (variable),Stop Desktop Services,Stop Remaining Services,Stop Wasapi,,LAN on,persist = on,all OSD off,SFS = 2,PE off,PA off, Arc Prediction,x16 Upsample, Straight Contiguous,Lush USB  cable,Phasure NOS1a DAC,Meitner PA-6 preamp, Spectral Audio DMA-180  Power Amp, Tannoy System 15 DMT II, Tannoy St-100 supertweeters, Tannoy TS2.12 subwoofers (2). * On hiatus for a while...
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« Reply #98 on: February 20, 2014, 05:44:15 am »

Gave these settings a quick listen this evening and found the NOS Driver Contol Panel buffer setting of 2 a bit too "airy" sounding. Leaving the SFS at .1, I increased the buffer to 8 and felt the added weight to the HF's sounded more "correct." Gave Roberta a listen and was mesmerized. But this was just a quick first impression after a rather long day. Also interesting was that the very sporadic stutter described above disappeared when I increased the buffer to 8. 

All this made me wonder if some sort of calculus "formula" could be used to let the SFS become "infinitely small!" Of course, I'm no math whizz........ Happy
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« Reply #99 on: February 20, 2014, 07:57:42 pm »

I nodiced that at these low settings the pc reacts very very fast!
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OriginAE x11v Home build HTCP ~ Asus x79 mobo 3930K 12 core underclock 500 MHz,
16GB, *Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0* *from RAM*, music on music server / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.10*  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core *3-5* / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive *none* (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Not the best (OS from RAM issue) / Time Stability = Off (OS from RAM issue) / Custom Filter Mid 705600 / -> USB3 (Silverstone both sides isolated = Sw#3 of NOS1a = Up) -> *Clairixa USB 15cm* -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 0.70m -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink ->> Metrum Amps ->> Metrum Acoustics ESL Open Baffle.
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« Reply #100 on: February 21, 2014, 07:08:49 am »

One of the things that I have been challenged to do is to run XXHE from w7.  I have never done that with any version of XXHE (I’m a relative late-comer) so this morning I finally got a good install on w7 after an initial false start.  Thankfully Peter explained to me that I needed to update to SP1 and then turn off the windows updates after that.  On my first w7 installation I updated all the way to current and to be honest the sound was sh*t but of course that may have been due to other factors, I don’t really know.  Anyway, I am dual booting with both os’s in separate partitions on the same SSD.

So today I did some listening to both w7 and w8.  After my initial favourable impressions with w7 I changed the w8 settings to match those I was using in w7 (which are Peters settings including the 0.1 SFS).  Switched between them and…OMG…WTF…????...I can hear a difference between _operating systems_ using the same hardware, software, settings, optimisations, BIOS, cables, dac, amps, speakers, everything. 

On something like Roberta Flack “Killing Me Softly” the differences are not subtle as far as differences go.  W7 has this air and ambience that surrounds the singers and it seems a little richer as a result.  In comparison w8 sounds more forward, less refined and a little coarser in the treble region.  Take note that this is after a single day’s listening, so I have plenty more time to spend getting to the bottom of this, but my first impressions are that w7 is better than w8.

Also note that this is with the Silverstone isolated both ends but without my PCIe cable loom.  Unfortunately, in the efforts of progress, my cable loom has been deconstructed one too many times and is pretty much beyond repair.  I am now itching to hear w7 with my loom so will have to fast-track its replacement.

Anthony
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Audio PC
Stealth Mach II with Xeon E5 2698 v4 20 Core 2GHz  with Hyperthreading On [40 cores]/ 32GB Ram / RAM-OS / mobo USB port

XXHighEnd 2.11 RAM-OS (W14393 RAM)
Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Buffer 4096 / Q1/3/4/5 = 14/1/1/1 / xQ1 = 1 / Processor Core Appointment Scheme = Core 1-3 / PlayerPrio = Low / ThreadPrio = RealTime / ClockRes = 1ms / Not Switch during playback = off / Xtweaks Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when idle = 1 / Provide stable power = 0 / Utilize cores always = 1 / Time Stability = Stable / Time Performance Index = Optimal / SFS 0.90MB Max 120MB / Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect = on / Start Playback during conversion = off / Do not start playback at all = off / Copy to XX-drive by standard = on / Always clear Proxy before Playback = on / Stop Remaining Desktop Services = on / Stop Desktop Services = on / Stop Remaining Services = on / Stop WASAPI Services = on / Stop W10 Services = off / Keep LAN Services = on / Persist = off / Use Remote Desktop = on/ Arc Predict / Minimize OS = on / Peak Extend = off / Unattended

Audio Chain
Stealth MachII PC >> Lush^2 USB 1.1m >> NOS1a G3 B75, Driver v1.0.4 (4ms) >> Blaxius^2 >> 10Y DHT Preamp >> 6 way active horn speakers (Single Ended Triodes)
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« Reply #101 on: February 21, 2014, 09:02:41 am »

Gave these settings a quick listen this evening and found the NOS Driver Contol Panel buffer setting of 2 a bit too "airy" sounding. Leaving the SFS at .1, I increased the buffer to 8 and felt the added weight to the HF's sounded more "correct."

This got me thinking to the sense of "too airy ? can that exist ?".

After being used to SFS=0.1 for a couple of days, I thought to seek the limits of it, and first went to 0.08. All still played well.
I'm almost sure I heard more detail right from the start, this time in the highest frequencies, or maybe better the "transient freqencies" (?). So, the ultra short ticks which may be there in my by now well known "ambient sh*t". But let me tell you, how so super interesting something like Infected Mushroom has become; this is really Goa (say stomping house-like), but the stomping is totally overwhelmed by all those quare sounds, them always different easy new measure (like in 4/4 etc.). I was nodding my head regularly of which I myself recognize that when I do that I can't understand anymore.

At this setting the Woofers felt quite the same as with W8 but "more of it". But also bass seems better integrated with the rest, or/hence with the music itself.

So I'd say 0.08 is better than 0.10 again.

What I suddenly started to notice is related to Brian's remark about the airyness; possibly it was still in my mind and without real focus I am fairly sure by now that this is related to very fast L/R "flanger". Possibly I heard it as a property for the first time with the 0.1 setting and it is generally there in many tracks. For synth work this seems natural, never mind I really never noticed it before. So just envision a whatever sawtooth wave of higher frequency (maybe between 2-3KHz) and now you can easily hear that the frequency is not playing "in line" for left and right. Previously it came from the middle hence both speakers the same, now there's a whatever small delay between left and right and it creates ... air.

Now watch out, because I actually heard this more profound already from the lower frequencies and where flanger is normally used (electric pianos of the early type would explicitly do that). So think 200-500Hz but also way low (but way low isn't used that often). Thus, the past few days this has become an explicit property in really many tracks, and this wasn't heard previously. Yesterday, with the SFS=0.1 it became apparent with the higher and highest frequencies.


Then went to 0.06 and apart from a small out of sync (on/off on/off) for a second (well into a first track played) which repaired itself, all still played well. And, 90 minutes or so later, good to go because only that one anomaly. But :

Now something strange happened to the sound and it is something which I wouldn't have noticed at all say a few months ago. But today this is totally apparent and actually this springs from all playing so well (and so much better than in W8). It became congested. Yes, I put that in bold because I think it is of more importance than we ever could see before. Again watch out for this alien, because I tend to more and more come up with my own ideas about things :

Energy will not get lost.

Huh !?

Going back to the first minutes of playing with 0.06 I right away could hear that all was changed. Detail was again more, but dynamics went down. Better for background music, but along with it, with less fun. Strangely anough I easily could last for those 90 minutes of it, but possibly this was because I was now focusing on what physics played a role here; it was so obvious ...

If you think back on my expression on the high frequency "flanger" (but delay is the better word) and you can indeed envision that there's this difference between left and right, but really tight together. Mind you, mentioned 2-3KHz really is fast and it happens in between that (wave cycles). So, speakers are at a distance of 6 meters and room is 8 meters wide. What would happen if we brought that back to half of it ? Well, something like the distance to travel from left to right (and back) would allow for half of the time hence the frequency had to be half of pereceived 2-3KHz in order to let it work as good. Of course the pose is moot, but it is something about the width in front of us and how our ears can more easily detect this (phase differences) when the speakers are more apart.

Still with me ?

Ok; SFS=0.06 makes the L/R changes so fast that the separation gets lost and the sound becomes mono-like.
Ahum.
You can so easily see that suddenly all is literarrly beamed between the speakers, and while I could not discover any anomalies or distortions or something else wrong, this happened :
- Detail becomes even more if only the transient is on its own;
- Dynamics drop because (again) the way to the peak receive a relatively way long envelope.

The latter (and about the "again") I have described before (I think as a virtue of the Silverstone card) and you could say that all becomes way more fluent. However, the downside is that when the freuency is higher it meshes with itself. This doesn't make it more grey and merely more white but it is the underlaying "fundamentals" doing it. This is how a "transient on its own" keeps on working, because it doesn't bear the fundamental.
Actually this is more "right" so to speak, but it doesn't work out.

Congestion ?

That phenomenon again;
I am pretty sure that the music is all still there, but it is now congested into a smaller beam and while energy will not get lost, all now needs to play in a small space and the understanding of how the music will sound now is (I think) not so difficult to understand. It sounds up to compressed which would be the physical thing happening. The airyness actually totally disappears and you could say that this is because there is no (free !) air left in that small beam.

While the above is my outlay of how the audible result can be explained, this does not explain at all why it happens. So, I really don't know at this moment. But maybe I don't care so much either, because there's now something else which is way more important :

It can be controlled.

So that airyness, which I btw only dedicate to L/R behaviour and not so much to depth can be set from ultra-wide to ultra-beamed (notice that I use horn speakers which beam to begin with). Uhm, apparently. Now, nothing tells me that SFS=0.08 was the widest setting, nor did I try 0.09 or 0.07 plus it seems to urge for another decimal (so 0.084 etc. can be dialed in).

The way it works generally is easy to see for me because it is all about "beating" of internal processes and matchmaking with processor frequency and much more. So, I didn't try, but I am sure that when I now change my processor frequency from 500MHz to 600Mhz the SFS setting has to be different to let it work out the same way. And remember, this is how all the Q3,4,5 (1,1,1) stuff emerged - explicitly for this.
That it takes me two months myself to learn how to go about with it is something else. swoon

Thinking what to say more I can only again see myself sitting on a bar stool looking towards the floor, nodding my head. Things get really crazy for differences already, and by now I can't see any more that even dimensions will stop to emerge weekly. So you know, that L/R flanger really is another new dimension.

One last remark :
Before people let float their DACs in order to be able to perceive possibly the same, this time my NOS1 was flat on the floor (no footers). It has been so for the past 3 days ...
(there is a reason for this, but it is not related to an explicit trial or something - it's just on the floor).

Peter
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*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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« Reply #102 on: February 21, 2014, 02:02:28 pm »

Not sure that I followed all that you said above Peter, but it's always a good thing when you make new discoveries. Am wondering, though, if you played around with the NOS1 control panel buffer setting. For me there was a perceived improvement changing it from 2 to 8 with SFS at .1. Had a good listen last night and was blown away by this "new"sound. Might be another factor to add to the mix.
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« Reply #103 on: February 21, 2014, 02:33:12 pm »

Brian, didn't try that because I planned to go down with the SFS numbers and that requires the control panel to be low as well. That is, this is my experience from W8, but I sure have the "feeling" that W7 is way more forgiving ?

Peter
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W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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« Reply #104 on: February 21, 2014, 03:58:28 pm »

Quote
....So I'd say 0.08 is better than 0.10 again.....

Hello Peter,
I'm have made the switched to a new motherboard Intel, i7, Win Pro......The lowest SFS for the moment is 0,25 and sometimes a stutter. Do you have suggestions how I can get it lower. What parameters do i need to change?

I like the sound of this low sfs very much. A lot of details and soundlayers.

Best Regards Johan
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