New Amp

[boleary]

Finally found an amp with as many options as XXHighEnd.  Lifetime warranty and 30 day moneyback--had to give it a try. Twelve weeks to shipping. Will give an impression in January.

http://www.decware.com/newsite/TORII.htm

[PeterSt]

Hey Brian - this is from a friend :

So, are you going for the "Female voices to die for" ?
I certainly would go for the superb story told.

But since you have a 30 days money back guarantee I hope you won't find it harsh when I notice :

- First plot in there from the regular push pull is denoted wrongly with its circled "-110dB" and which should be "-140dB";

- 3rd harmonic in the second plot is as high as in the first plot (but 2nd is in the first plot as well indeed);

- 2nd harmonic in 2nd plot will be totally audible (that high it is, but if you like that - alas);

- THD+N is 12dB better in that first plot anyway;

- Watch out for the 60Hz hum, not matter what the story tells;

- Burn-in time exceeds the 30 day money back by far.

Story looks still great and consistent.

Best regards,
Peter

[boleary]

Peter, very much appreciate the cautionary words; I was hoping you would point out issues. Though I would love to have "female voices to die for", I'm also wanting orchestral classical to sound dynamically "correct," full and "present;" and rock to have high energy, slam and low distortion at very high volume. 

 I guess what you point out doesn't bode well for accurate, low distortion sound? 

[PeterSt]

Brian,

It would go too far when I dictate what one should like. So, much in this hobby is about what we like best and this is of course subjective.

What I actually do is live by measurements, since I sure learned that the better the measurements the better the sound. I did not learn this in school and it just went by empirical finding. Point is though that first a few prerequisities have to be met before subjective listening can turn into objective listening. So what I mean is : while this amplifier in my book sure will have a flavor because of the way too high harmonics (-60dB really is high) - and while anyone without that reference may like it or just not because of his own ideas about music reproduction - I would not be able to because of this flavor.

So here is where good figures match good music reproduction because as you will know I refuse to hear some flavor throughout all my music played. I would go crazy of just that.
That this at the same time leads to the best reproduction is something else, but sadly this depends on more parameters. In your case it can only be the speakers, when deciding for (or listening to) an amp. I mean, the NOS1 can hopefully be excluded, unless you recognize that that produces some sort of "sound".
What I'm saying is : no speaker can be 100% which always makes it worthwhile to listen to amplifiers which may just match that not-100% nicely because it is not 100% itself. Only if the speaker (and DAC) would be 100% you'd hear the amp and however it sounds because of distortion, it will be profound because not mixed with other distortions.

The other way around counts too : Have this beautifully measured amplifier (and I really only know two by now) and you will thus hear all anomalies of the speaker directly.

How important this all is can not be put into words (at least not by me). So, supposed you have two of those elements you can trust (for good figures) and you need to select a third, it is suddenly so (soo) easy to select that third. Obvious, because all you hear now is that third.

All IOW, once we strive for no distortion because we believe in that produces the best SQ, we should not start out with one device which includes distortions to begin with. Not at -60dB, not at -80dB but at the level of what we see best so far in our chain (which would be around -122dB for Hires in your current situation).

I am not saying you or we all should strive for that because it not necessarily works out for the better. Example :
When the DAC shows a sufficient slew rate so transients are always followed easily, and the amplifier can do the same after amplification, it's the poor speaker which needs to deal with it, which may not be the case. Result ? not all that beautiful female voices to die for. A nicely "rounding" amplifier may now solve the problem for the speaker, and the inherently (say "needed") distortion to come to this rounding may be way less destructive for SQ than the speaker which can't cope. But this is all to try, and the result will be subjective to your ears (I say it again : my subjectiveness would emerge by getting crazy of the flavored sound).

While we recognize (that assumed) that we should strive for the fewest distortions all over, it is the danger that when starting out with that nicely "distorting" device - that solving a problem for today, has to be replaced tomorrow when this other distorting device was replaced by a better. This latter of course happened because we still were not satisfied, but the point is that you already know that today and that thus this first device should not have been obtained in the first place.
Both must be replaced, and in the end it saves the money on the first.

Okay, I am overshooting myself now;
Maybe I am not that keen on seeing "distortions" in a planned purchase, but it seems contradictionary to me when someone like you (any NOS1 owner for that matter) goes that direction.
I too (seriously) fell for the great consistent story. But those plots should not have been in there ...

Best regards,
Peter

[GerardA]

The strange thing with this amp is that they are proud 2nd order distortion is added, but still the uneven order distortion stays there too. I always thought uneven order has to be completely missing while even order is not objectionable to the ears.
Still the amp looks stunning!

[Mamba315]

Have this beautifully measured amplifier (and I really only know two by now) 

Hi Peter,
I assume one is the BD Design gainclones.  What's the other?

Matt

[PeterSt]

The Sauermann Matt (Mani owns it).

Please notice that the fact that I didn't see others doesn't tell much. It is only that I see many THD and noise line plots come by (Internet) and none look good to me at all. Next I know is that when things don't look good to me they also don't sound good (to me ).

The Sauermann I coincidentally measured myself and it is just all the way "good".

Peter

[christoffe]

NORMA Audio Electronics

http://www.tmhaudio.com/Norma.htm

This amp is outstanding and a real bargain. (bought for € 3500,00 in England as a demo unit)
I never heard the voices from Al Jarreau, Jamie Cullum, Bobby McFerrin in such a way. Really amazing! The bass is exceptional.
See the review from HiFi+ on that homepage, and I can confirm the writing.
The amp needs a very good stand/support (SRA). (The preamp section of the Integrated is omitted and the NOS1 has a  connection to the power amp section only via internal jumpers)

Joachim

[boleary]

Thanks Joachim. That amp looks like it's really great. However, I was able to get my hands on an older model BD-Design 30 watt amp here in the US. It's my understanding that BD-Design no longer makes the amp. I'm amazed at the sound of this little twelve pound box. All the buzz about gainclones turns out to be true! 

[BertD]

It's my understanding that BD-Design no longer makes the amp.

Hey Bolary,

Glad to read that you like what you hear. Welcome to the club! 

I still make the amps but use them primarily in my active systems (like the Orelo or Orelino), I do not have a commercial stand alone amplifier on the market as such.

In case of interest I still make them (on order only) with several options available.

See it as a custom built amp (single, stereo, quad, bridged or not, etc.) using the Gain Clone principle ... 

Bert