USB Cables... again

[christoffe]

I my case with connected shield and powerline, the esd chip was blown. Iow the 5V protection was short circuit to ground. Somehow a current from the pc to the NOS1 ground was created. Cause onknown. At first I thought about the pc, but it was more likely that the nos1 amplifier had something to do with it. So far i did not investigate this any further. I have the habit of disconnecting the NOS1 when i do something to either the pc or amp.

Regards, Coen


P.s you need special equipment and some precision skills to repair the board.

Thanx Coen,

ok, following your procedure of disconnecting .........,  the best SQ is what we are looking for.

No risc, no fun. (It  might happen, that I have to go to the post office in the near/next future)

Joachim

[manisandher]

A couple of years ago I bought a USB cable from eBay which had separate data and power lines, with the ground passing through the data line (not the 5V power line). I fished this cable out and connected it to the PC via only the data line. Et voila, no crackling noise whatsoever...

... AND, a totally different sound too. A much cleaner, fuller sound, with much deeper bass. On first hearing, it sounds too laid back and almost dull. But with prolonged listening it sounds more realistic. The highs, although more subdued, are sweeter. And the real test is that you can listen to music for hours without any agitation.

Since trying this, I have changed my mobo. Right now I am using a cheap off-the-shelf 'regular' 5m USB cable between the PC and NOS1. I have no 'crackling' sound whatsover.

I haven't tried expensive Ridge Street Enopias cable with the new ASRock mobo for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I would need to use a USB connector to connect the Enopias to the 5m cable, and I don't want any additional USB connections between PC and NOS1 - working at the MHz range, reflections at these USB junctions may cause changes to the sound (this is pure speculation on my part, but it's been proven by Pat at AR-T in spdif cables). Secondly, I'm perfectly happy with the sound I'm getting from the PC/NOS1 combo now. The old mobo really was fatiguing to listen to (something both Nick and Brian found also) and I suspect the 'improvement' in sound I described above was down to the Enopias taming this somehow.

Mani.

[PeterSt]

Sadly it is so complicated and everything seems to be involved.

But thank you Mani for the (even repeat) of this feedback.
I hope it is clear to everybody that bass can not vanish by means of proper grounding (noise !) - only add up (unjustified).

More bass = less straight "waves" = lower frequency because of less frequent modulated frequency.
Especially the higher frequency noise influences jitter in a "muffling" way.
Too sharp highs sadly is also an exhibit of jitter spectra we don't like, so it rally is difficult. But the leaner the bass the less jitter in general (but which also involves ringing of any form (this also spreads the straightness of the wave)).

That the bass may be too lean is quite something else. This just needs "woofer surface" (opposed to Bose milk packs).
That in the mean time highs may come across as "sharp" can easily be implied by wanting "volume" out of the bass. You now just turned up the volume too high to accomplish that.

Did I say it is difficult ?

Ok, enough for now.
Peter

[CoenP]

I made a quick and (very) dirty "data only" cable from an existing €1,- one very similar to the one i use normally. i cut the shield and red 5Volt wire at the DAC side of the cable and pried out and cut the red cable on the PC side leaving the shield connected.

Iow:
Shield connected at pc side only
Power line cut at both sides not being able to pick up or transfer noise.

I will report my findings when i have a little more listening time on this cable. I also have a concern for esd safety that I have to reason out.


Regards, coen

This experiment is over.
No general improvement in sq, an unpleasant haze and ticks during playback gave away the flawed implementation. Error counters went through the roof after a couple of hours playing. No fixing applicable here.
Goning back: no errors whatsoever with the normal cable.

The strange thing is that sometimes it suddenly sounded real good only to disappear soon after, often in the same track. I did not discover any reproducable structure in this phenomena.

Regards,  Coen

[juanpmar]

Joachim, have you experimented the same kind of problems as Coen with his "dirty" cable?. I mean, have you had any problem with your YFS USB cable, or you find that it works fine and the music is sounding as good as when you tested it for the first time?

Regards,
Juan

[christoffe]

Joachim, have you experimented the same kind of problems as Coen with his "dirty" cable?. I mean, have you had any problem with your YFS USB cable, or you find that it works fine and the music is sounding as good as when you tested it for the first time?

Regards,
Juan

Hello Juan,

I did not face any problems until now, and the SQ is better than before. The YFS cable remains in the system.
I'm not using any tweaks for the MB (which is at least 3 years old) within XXH, minimize OS only.

Sincerely

Joachim

[juanpmar]

Thank you Joachim, I appreciate your opinion.

Best regards,
Juan

[CoenP]

It cannot harm to look at the errors in the NOS1 driverpanel allthough you will probably find nothing there. I think my execution was too poor. Also I suspect the cut screen to have more to do with the errors than the cut 5V wires.

Regards, Coen

[AlainGr]

It cannot harm to look at the errors in the NOS1 driverpanel allthough you will probably find nothing there. I think my execution was too poor. Also I suspect the cut screen to have more to do with the errors than the cut 5V wires.

Regards, Coen

Hi Coen,

When you did this (cutting the 5v), how was XXHE reacting when you loaded it ?

I ask this, since with the use of the Sotm USB 3 PCIe card, I can either have the 5v switch turned ON of OFF. And when I forget to turn it ON the first time, XXHE does not see the NOS1... Only after I have loaded XXHE, then I can turn the switch OFF...

Alain

[CoenP]

Hi Alain,

I cut the sleeve of the cable at the beginning and end. Pried out the 5V and cut it at both sides. So no 5 V at the NOS whatsoever.

I have not tested the cable when turning the nos1 off and on. It is allways on. The driver has no problems recognising the nos1. It should not matter since the 5v line is only connected to the ESD chip for safety.

Mayby you have a different nos1???

Regards, Coen

[AlainGr]

Hi Cohen,

Well that is beyond my knowledge (if I have a different NOS1 or not)... But each time I forget to put that switch ON (5v), XXHE brings a window (2 consecutive windows in fact), indicating "No sound card"... So I shut XXHE, turn the 5v switch ON and restart XXHE. My NOS1 is almost ON all the time... Maybe I shut something in addition with what Minimize OS does, so that could explain this, but I am not savvy enough to put my finger on it...

Regards,

Alain

[boleary]

Well after leaving the PC on with the XX Driver control panel streaming for four days I had another good listen last night. Doesn't seem that the sound has changed much, if at all, since the initial 10 to 15 hours of break in. What is clear though is that this cable has finally eliminated a certain HF hash that has been part of my XX experience since 2009. The hash, or as I like to characterize it, clangyness, usually manifests with female voices that suddenly go from 0 to 100 mph in a split second, or with solo violins its heard as the absence of the mid range which is so opposite from hearing them in a live setting. Since I joined the XX community, it seems that every version of XXHighend, as well as every PC iteration and tweak I stole from ya'll has, to some degree impacted this HF hash. Usually, when a change was made its benefits would be apparent and, for a while, that's all I'd hear. Then as time passed, the bad would again re-emerge so that one could hear how the sound was bettered by the change but it was still not quite "right." Well, here in my modest system, that hash has disappeared and, in its absence, music now emerges like never before: woody, natural, live performances with everything I play. Is it perfect? Logically I know it just cannot be and perhaps I'm still only hearing the good and cannot yet hear the bad. But this is among the very most significant changes that I've experienced since 2009. It's like when I switched from my old DAC to the NOS1. It certainly feels like the disappearance of that HF hash is the result of the removal of the PC power leg of the cable.

Of course it is concerning that this cable eliminates the ESD protection. Perhaps, if the merits of this cable design are accepted by he whose mind is unchained from such trifles as "knowledge,"(Move over Buddha, here comes St. Peter!)  a new means of protection will be developed. 

[CoenP]

Of course it is concerning that this cable eliminates the ESD protection. Perhaps, if the merits of this cable design are accepted by he whose mind is unchained from such trifles as "knowledge,"(Move over Buddha, here comes St. Peter!)  a new means of protection will be developed. 

For the record: esd protection of the usb is still working as designed with and without the usb power cable.

Maybe the good sound is due to the lack of the 5V wire or maybe it is about a superior design and implementation of the others. I am glad this works for you!

Regards, Coen

[boleary]

Thanks Coen, but I'm a little confused. Does the lack of a 5 volt wire pose any kind of risk?

[PeterSt]

Brian,

A while back (2-3 months) you told about briefly some "noise" coming from the speakers when you pressed Play;
Has that gone by this ? (or did it vanish earlier because of other reasons ?).
I ask, because I'm sure I could imply the same a while ago (external grounding issue somewhere).

Peter