Choosing a DAC

[Telstar]

There are so many external DACs with pc input (usb, firewire and others), that choosing a good-sounding and non-bugged one is getting terribly difficult.

These are the options that I can see viable for my situation (HTPC that i'm building, which will run Vista x32)

-RME FF 400 (pros: firewire is superior to usb, reputable brand; cons: no Vista drivers so far, bad aestethics)
-Aqvox mkII (pros: good aestethics; comments: a friend of mine has the mkI hooked to a mac and sounds good)
-PS Audio D III (pros: reputable brand, cons: usb input section seems bugged)
-Benchmark DAC1 (latest version, pros: praised by many; cons: availability in europe is scarce)
-Bel Canto S300iu (pros: reputable brand, only one device, i.e. less interconnects; cons: older burr/brown DAC chip (not confirmed - I have enquired BC); comments: the DAC3 is not listed because off budget, but the integrated solution covers all my needs)

Other ideas?

My budget is about 2000€ to be split between DAC and amplifier (power or integrated, depending if the DAC can act as preamp). My preference is to os-DACs and to firewire devices.

[PeterSt]

I think RME was the first to have Vista drivers ... (dec. 2006) ...

[Telstar]

I think RME was the first to have Vista drivers ... (dec. 2006) ...

Hi Peter, thanks for the welcome. I was playing with foobar and SRC when i found about XX on audioasylum.

Then why is not shown in the product specs? I think they didnt update them for awhile. In the downloads there are vista drivers, even for x64 (that would be just silly to use for a HTPC).

Any other good firewire dacs available?

Also, I'm interested in your opinion because you considered the TwinDAC+ MUCH superior to the FF400(800). The twindac (new) is quite out of my budget, though.

[PeterSt]

Hi,

Well, to be honest I vented by opinion this morning, but I scatched that because I didn't think you were interested in that, also looking at your budget issues ... So I started with "maybe I'm snobbish, but ..." 

And then I said something like a "DAC" like a Fireface (it really being an external soundcard) not fitting in the row of, say, audiophile DACs. Nor the Lynx's, nor any of the other $500 the "AA people" often rave about. They are just in another leage, and "us" who use a Fireface, only use it to pass through (and reclock) SPDIF ...
Now, is that snobbish or what ?!

Furthermore, it needs the real experience with the DACs you mentioned to have a real opinion.
Anyway, also looking at your response in this other topic (Question about direct I2S DACs) you seem to be a good candidate for my Audio Note Signature-3 double modded (tube) os-DAC. Hehe. It still would need an SPDIF connection somehow ...
I only replaced it with the (indeed very good TwinDAC+) because I specifically wanted non-oversampling.

Peter

[Telstar]

Hi,

Well, to be honest I vented by opinion this morning, but I scatched that because I didn't think you were interested in that, also looking at your budget issues ... So I started with "maybe I'm snobbish, but ..." 

And then I said something like a "DAC" like a Fireface (it really being an external soundcard) not fitting in the row of, say, audiophile DACs. Nor the Lynx's, nor any of the other $500 the "AA people" often rave about. They are just in another leage, and "us" who use a Fireface, only use it to pass through (and reclock) SPDIF ...
Now, is that snobbish or what ?!

Furthermore, it needs the real experience with the DACs you mentioned to have a real opinion.
Anyway, also looking at your response in this other topic (Question about direct I2S DACs) you seem to be a good candidate for my Audio Note Signature-3 double modded (tube) os-DAC. Hehe. It still would need an SPDIF connection somehow ...
I only replaced it with the (indeed very good TwinDAC+) because I specifically wanted non-oversampling.

Peter

Well, at least you did try the Fireface (as DAC) vs. an audiophile DAC, unlike most people that posts at audioasylum.

I spent all afternoon looking for alternatives in the sub-1000$ range (while checking out also more expensive gear like the Wavelenght Brick and Cosecant (sp) ), so I extend my list with:

-Apogee Mini-DAC (with firewire option)~ $1000
-Promitheus DAC (NOS, considered better than Benchmark and Lavry DA10) ~$400 ($700 tube version)
-Stello DA100 (US/OS) ~$700
-MHDT Paradisea (with tube buffer) ~$550
-Wavelenght Cosecant ~$2500

I dont have a personal opinion about tubes nor about upsampling and oversampling (through software or hardware), I need to try and judge for myself. If i get an os/us DAC i want the option to do it or not
So far what I "like" best in this list are the Bel Canto, because it is an integrated solution (= less money and less hassle) and the two tubed DACs Promitheus and Paradisea (funny names btw).

I own a T.A. 10.1 and one day i may just buy something in this pricerange to see how it sounds compared to whatever i'll get in 2 months (when i finish building my htpc and the new quad cores are out). Considering the €/$ current rate buying from the US has never been more convenient.

[PeterSt]

Unless you have other reasons than Audio ... don't go for the Quad cores ...
They have problems with switching procecces from core to core and bring nothing effectively. I.e. many people report problems, and I see no people with joy.
But that may be a matter of Googling. 

[Telstar]

Unless you have other reasons than Audio ... don't go for the Quad cores ...
They have problems with switching procecces from core to core and bring nothing effectively. I.e. many people report problems, and I see no people with joy.
But that may be a matter of Googling. 

Yes I have. The HTPC will be used 60% for movies and 40% for music. Quad cores are tremendously faster in applying video filters.

How this could cause issues with audio? "Switching processes" teoretically shouldnt happen when a dedicated PC is used for media playback. There wont be antivirus, defrag and other resident stuff running on. While i'm pretty new to audiophile computer audio, i know one thing or two about hardware and windows.

Speaking of which, does XX supports virtualization? That should fix it. Anyway, on the test pc that had problems with terratec drivers I have a dual xeon with HT, which means 4 "cores" for programs like yours (i guess, unless u check for cpus instead of cores).
Vista support virtualization as well as E6x and Qx intel core duos. I have been using Vista since RC1.

[PeterSt]

VST users report glitches and everything with Q processors, although they blame it on the software they use.
In those cases, *not* spreading tasks over processors, solve their problems.
Besides that, various benchmarks (although from the same environment) show that total power is not more that 2 core processors.

So in theory -obviously- Q processors are good, but in practice it often doesn't work out.
In this case I'm copying orthers' opinions. But Google shows just too many of them ...

[Telstar]

So in theory -obviously- Q processors are good, but in practice it often doesn't work out.

The interesting thing is that if this apply to quad cores, it should for dual cores too (and eventually to all cpus with hyper-threading).
I have an E6600 onto my gaming PC and I could switch with it in case of problems on the HTPC, but I am almost sure that I wont have audio problems due to that.

I was checking firewire soundcards cheaper than the RME to use as spdif transport and found a m-audio in the 200€ range. I also found an even cheaper berhinger but it has no spdif out.

[PeterSt]

Incurring for (core) switching, is very different from appointing.
My HTPC (for movies) has a HT processor, HT completely (HAL level) eliminated. It works better (for stuttering). Note that the particular softare does not appoint, but spread.

Since I appoint myself in XX, I know how easy it is to do just that for 2 cores, and how impossible it is to do that with 4. So I can dedicate "my" sofware t a core of "mine", but I can't decide for the unknown with 4 cores. I can though with 2. "All of you go to #1 ! excpect for me".

Maybe it's not clear, but never mind then.

[Telstar]

Incurring for (core) switching, is very different from appointing.
My HTPC (for movies) has a HT processor, HT completely (HAL level) eliminated. It works better (for stuttering). Note that the particular softare does not appoint, but spread.

Since I appoint myself in XX, I know how easy it is to do just that for 2 cores, and how impossible it is to do that with 4. So I can dedicate "my" sofware t a core of "mine", but I can't decide for the unknown with 4 cores. I can though with 2. "All of you go to #1 ! excpect for me".

I'm not a software engineer, so I will speak in layman terms.
I agree that HT is mostly gimmicks, but sometimes programs see it as a second processor.

Back to the important stuff, does right now XX "dedicate" to core0 or core1? I would go for the second that is generally less used by windows.

Then, I'm not sure if it is possible, but what about a simple command line to set the affinity of a thread (XX) to a given core(s) like I can manually do through the task manager?

[PeterSt]

That's all happening already (and more) ...

[Telstar]

That's all happening already (and more) ...

:D

Well, I can say this. Today I finally managed to remove the upsampling from my soundcard on the test computer from 48khz to 44.1, thorugh its control panel.

I still cannot use exclusive mode or assigning cpu "priority" (demo mode), but, I felt a SQ improvement vs asio playback (I use either MediaPortal or foobar 0.9.5beta3). This on terratec dmx6 fire (internal) and decent tannoy active monitors.

I'm sure XX is the way to go for my HTPC when it'll be ready.

I will go to audition the Bel Canto DAC and I will bring a (recent) notebook with XP which is a friend's who's a musician (with bad ears, so he says ). Would use XX with XP and in demo mode still attain a better SQ than foobar with ASIO?
I will play wavs of carefully (EAC) ripped tracks of my reference CDs.

[PeterSt]

Would use XX with XP and in demo mode still attain a better SQ than foobar with ASIO?

Today I don't know this anymore (the XP versions of back then were compared with Foobar 0.8.3), and as you may know, I can't listen (anymore) to XX at XP at all (plain ugly to my ears).

Do note that the Core Appointment does not work in demo mode.

[Gerner]

VST users report glitches and everything with Q processors, although they blame it on the software they use.
In those cases, *not* spreading tasks over processors, solve their problems.
Besides that, various benchmarks (although from the same environment) show that total power is not more that 2 core processors.

So in theory -obviously- Q processors are good, but in practice it often doesn't work out.
In this case I'm copying orthers' opinions. But Google shows just too many of them ...

Funny....

I have a Q processor running here which does not have the slightest problem with the XX. I admit I had some doubt once I had funny clicks and distortion phenomenons occouring, but that came from the FireWire chain having a HW error.

I found out in my corner of the world that the PC shop-shelves is not saturated with dual core MOBOs when you ask for 8 SATA ports for HDD stacking.

My advice is not to be too fast on the trigger if anomalities occour. They can come from anywhere.
So before eventual owners throw out the Q processor MOBO's. hold the breath and see if there could be other reasons for those anomalities.

Gerner