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Author Topic: Fireface400 alternatives?  (Read 29557 times)
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JohanZ
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« on: November 13, 2007, 03:41:41 pm »

Hi Peter,

I have the impression that a small part of the functionality of the Fireface is used in the complete chain to create a analog signal. "RME's Fireface 800 is the world's most powerful FireWire audio interface ever. Up to 56 channels record/playback......Eight balanced line inputs and outputs ......." Even the Fireface 400 has impressive specs. 36 channel....

It's connected via the PC firewire interface and delivers a SPDIF signal to the DAC. Are there cheaper alternatives to create a quality SPDIF signal? Which properties are important for a good selection?

e.g. http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/FireWire/AudioFire2/specs.php

Regards,

Johan


* audiofire2_both_small.jpg (22.42 KB, 750x353 - viewed 1287 times.)
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Gerner
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2007, 07:19:01 pm »

Hi Johan

Yes this one:

http://www.hagtech.com/hagusb.html


or you can buy my FireFace 400 for 300,- Euro + transport and custom clearance.

Gerner
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« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2007, 08:53:32 am »

Hello Gerner,

if Johan doesn't want it, I will buy it  !

Leo
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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2007, 01:12:23 pm »

Hi Johan

Yes this one:

http://www.hagtech.com/hagusb.html


Gerner

Hey Gerner,

Do you have this one? And this is trough USB i thought that firewire was the best for XX or am i mistaking?

Grtz Gerard
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JohanZ
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2007, 03:02:28 pm »

Hi Gerner,

Quote
you can buy my FireFace 400....

I had the idea that the best route for audioplayback is via PC=>firewire=>fireface400=>SPDIF=>DAC!

Please could you descripe the sound differences when you listen via the FireFace400 (SPDIF) and direct via the USB=>Twindac+?

At the moment I am using a USB unit (SPDIF out, from the Twindac) as input for the DDDAC1543.

Regards,

Johan
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PeterSt
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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2007, 03:20:40 pm »

Quote
At the moment I am using a USB unit (SPDIF out, from the Twindac)

???
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XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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JohanZ
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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2007, 03:55:39 pm »

Quote
....???....

I am using a USB-to-SPDIF converter bought in the past from Bert. He (has) used it in his TwinDAC. The DDDAC1543 has only a SPDIF input!

What about the FireFace alternatives? e.g. AudioFire2

Johan
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2007, 11:21:18 pm »

Hi Johan,

I honestly don't know the answer. no
I guess it's a matter of buy an trial ...


Quote
Hey Gerner,

Do you have this one? And this is trough USB i thought that firewire was the best for XX or am i mistaking?

Personally (!!) I don't think you are mistaking, but all is a matter what works out best for your system. For example, looking at ChrisV and his glitch problems, supposed they are not there with USB, what would be better net ? So all is subjective ...

To me, the sound of the TwinDAC+ USB connected, has something like the musicions don't want to come forward ... not introdue themselves, liveless. This too is a personal opinion which is subjective to things. For example, I always found the lower frequencies better when the TwinDAC+ is USB connected.

But again, I don't know ... sorry
Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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Gerner
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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2007, 09:32:08 pm »

Hello Gerner,

if Johan doesn't want it, I will buy it  !

Leo

Dear Johan ...Dear Leo

Sorry I was unable to repond to you both. I have been away for a while.

Yes I have a FF for sale that price. PM me each of you and who comes first.....Well in this topic in a way you did Leo!

I have a Hagerman too, though this is not for sale as it's on a borow from a friend. It's a very cheap solution for those who has'nt any. And good for those who has a "bad" one inside their DAC.

Now to the questions which USB/SPDIF is BEST of all. I honestly don't know. I guess it depends on if an eventual used DAC has one on board and that's taken into account too.

What  can I tell you, those I heard has some very little difference. I was recomended the FF and it's good. And does however offer customized settings for whatever make your music come out. Yes! But the Hagerman is no worse, but different sounding.
So is my "on board" USB/SPDIF in my DAC.

In a blind test I'm not sure who to point a winner. I could live with them all, with a small + to the FF.

Be aware though that it is always good to download the latest .dll drivers for the FF. It's so to speak a dynamical one of a kind in this respect.


Gerner
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2007, 12:02:33 pm »

Hello Gerner,

your private mail is hidden. And  I still would want to buy the fireface from you. You can mail me at .  l dot van dot doorn1 at casema.nl

regards,

Leo
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Dedicated silent audio pc HFX classic, Windows 8 pro 64bit  / Intel 3930 CPU 6 cores 12 threads,  ASRock x79 Extreme4-M/ SeaSonic Platinum 400w ATX PSU / 16Gb RAM , music on (SATAIII), MinOS/ Engine#4 Special Mode / Q1/2/3/4/5 = *6*/0/1/1/1 Qf=1 (Dev.Buffer = 4096) / not Invert / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / *Scheme = 1-2* @ UnAttended  /Services Off + No Running Time / Octo Arc Prediction Upsampling / *SFS=0,4 max= 120*  XT Tweaks balanced load 43, nervous=100, cool when idle 1, Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = On / Double Octo Arc Prediction Upsampling / -> USB with Dexa clock -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1 async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.3 (2ms) ->  direct to AMP: Gainclone mid high, Hypex DPS400 low, horn system (tractrix for mid/high, BD for bass with Oris200)
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2007, 01:35:42 pm »

Hello Gerner,

your private mail is hidden. And  I still would want to buy the fireface from you. You can mail me at .  l dot van dot doorn1 at casema.nl

regards,

Leo

Hi Leo

Lousy e-mail you have  unhappy  hahaha. Try this: gerner dot christensen at gmail dot com

Gerner
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« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2007, 02:27:51 am »

(...)

I always liked RME products... so if Leo doesn't buy your FF400, I'm very much interested Happy
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« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2007, 04:17:08 pm »

It seems that the FF for sale is gone. But I found more soundcards in the same pricerange:

-Behringer FCA202 (VERY cheap, around 100€, not sure of outputs)
http://www.behringer.com/FCA202/index.cfm?lang=eng

-m-audio audiophile firewire, around 200€ used (has spdif out with AC3 and DTS support -that would be good for movies)
(discontinued)

-m-audio Firewire 410 ($400 list, around 250€ on ebay) (has spdif out with AC3 and DTS support -that would be good for movies)
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FireWire410-main.html
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Software:
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Hardware:
OrigenAE H5 case | E5300 fanless |  8GB RAM | Winmate DC-DC fanless PSU | OS on SSD | Renesas USB3 pcie card | Belden highspeed usb cable | Audio-gd dac19 NOS with sigxer F1 | My_ref_FE mono amps | Albedo Apex speakers
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« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2007, 04:40:43 pm »

Forget about Behringers !
cr*ppy hardware, cr*ppy software (drivers). The're just too cheap. yes
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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Telstar
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« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2007, 05:19:11 pm »

Forget about Behringers !
cr*ppy hardware, cr*ppy software (drivers). The're just too cheap. yes

and no spdif outputs.
* Telstar deletes...

I hate m-audio speakers but people praise their soundcards, maybe that's a viable option.
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(2nd Apr 2018)
Software:
W10 14393 Pro x64 | XXHE 2.10 | MinOS | Q=14x1/0/0/0/0 | SFS 5,19 mixed contiguous | Nervous rate 1 | 4096k buffer |

Hardware:
OrigenAE H5 case | E5300 fanless |  8GB RAM | Winmate DC-DC fanless PSU | OS on SSD | Renesas USB3 pcie card | Belden highspeed usb cable | Audio-gd dac19 NOS with sigxer F1 | My_ref_FE mono amps | Albedo Apex speakers
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