Windows 8 and 09-z9, a match made in heaven?

[juanpmar]

Hi Juan,

Could you be more specific about the worsening of the Esata vs  the USB 3 connection ? Since it is possible for me to switch from one to the other... I would have thought that the fact of converting from USB to Sata inside the external case could induce something not desirable... On the other hand, Sata does not allow the same lenght between components, so it may not be practical for those who prefer to put their drives away from the pc...

Alain
Edit: I was wondering if the fact that there is power in the USB  cable (with the signal) would have a negative effect on the signal ? Sata does not have any power on its cable...

Hi Alain,

I´ve made that test some time ago and I really don´t remember exactly the details why was worse eSata than USB 3.0. At that time I considered that USB 3.0 sounded better but it was with W7, I have not tested it again with W8 but if you are very interested I could do it. About the length of the cable, yes the eSata are shorter so you need to put the eSata case closer to the PC.

Best regards,
Juan

[AlainGr]

Thanks Juan,

I will do some tests to check if I hear differences between the 2 connections. I have a Vantec USB 3 x 4 ports hub, but I never really used it on a regular basis.

While I am sure that your tests were correctly conducted, I was wondering about the 2 different interfaces, as Sata does not carry any power within its cable (that could affect the data), and when using USB, it needs to be converted to Sata (maybe "converted" is a too strong word, as I am not sure what it requires).

On the other hand, USB seems "stronger" at the connection level. I had problems with Esata connections, as it is not always obvious to connect on the right side the first time (and I talk from experience, since I "broke" a few cables just by pushing the connection in without ensuring I was on the right side)...

Regards,

Alain

[boleary]

Hey Nick and Paul any chance you guys could update your signatures with what are your latest 9Z9 settings? Also are you still using the Chinese sounf filter card?

Don't mean to be offensive so this is just a suggestion: could folks post 9Z9 SQ impressions in one thread-- maybe the 9Z9 Impressions thread--and post playback tweaks in the appropriate place--not in the SQ thread. This current thread has just gotten too confusing and there are now so many important software changes in 9Z9 that it would be great to reserve the 9z9 impressions thread just for that purpose. Seems to me a newbie would have a very difficult time trying to read about the SQ of and best settings for 9z9.

Yesterday I was playing 9Z9, W7, with PA off, a SFS of 60 and all other settings the same as Peter's and the sound was pretty incredible. Look forward to playing with Q5 settings.

[AlainGr]

Understood and sorry for the out of thread...

[boleary]

No problem Alain; I woke up a bit grumpy this morning so that didn't help!

[AlainGr]

I know the feeling But you are right

Regards,

Alain

[juanpmar]

Yesterday I removed the partition where W7 was, convinced as I am that W8 sounds better and also that Peter is not going back to W7 (as he said). So I have now Windows 8 Pro and XXHighEnd 0.9z-9b in one SATA III hdd and nothing else.

All the SQ qualities are not only maintained but improved, especially the sense of palpability of the sound that is now even more remarkable.

Regards,
Juan

[manisandher]

Yesterday, my wife was out at work and both the kids at nursery so I decided to bite the bullet and get W8 sorted out again on 'Le Monster', the music PC for my main listening room. I had installed W8 on this machine back at the beginning of February but couldn't live with the over-emphasized sound. I kept the HDD untouched but it seems that unplugging it from the SATAIII socket whilst in Minimize OS mode and with the Win7 shell somehow corrupted Win8. In any event, I had to resort to formatting the HDD and a totally new Win8 install. Most of it went pretty smoothly, but I then had major issues with privileges.

I've had W8 installed on the music PC in my office/study since the end of January and have, until recently, simply ignored the over-emphasized sound - OK for background music as I work. It's worked faultlessly and I've never had any privileges issues. There's only one user set up, set to Administrator by default. But with my install on Le Monster, I just couldn't get a single user account to work. After quite a while trying, I resorted to setting up another account, set to Administrator. This required going back and forth between the Win7 shell and Metro, and having to uninstall/reinstall the Win7 shell - I had to do this several times as I'm sure I made loads of mistakes along the way. But eventually everything worked. Phew!

Is Windows 8 and the new version of XXHighEnd (09-z9) the best combination so far between the OS and XXHighEnd?. The answer is, in my opinion YES.

I agree 100%. 0.9z-9b on W8 is a quantum step up in SQ compared to 0.9z-9b on W7. The latter is very, very good - probably the best sound I had achieved before yesterday. (I still have it on another HDD and will go back and take a listen at some point). But the 0.9z-9b/W8 combo is in another league... IMHO.

The main differences in SQ I detected with respect to other combinations of OS/XXHE are:

- Detail. The sound is the most detailed I've heard. I used, as always, a few albums I've listened literally hundreds of times. I have discovered new sounds that were hidden and it was an unbelievable surprise. Never before, in any case, I had heard certain sounds that are now perfectly audible.

Agree 100%. But this is 'real, full spectrum' detail, and not fake HF detail. There are no edges to the sound anymore, etching out and separating instruments. The sound is whole, and yet exquisitely textured.

- Density. The sound is dense and I wish I could explain, dense as I mean is not equal to thick, but a fuller sound with more information, I could define it, for lack of better words, like a more mature sound, more complete.

Agree 100%. This is like the 'whole' that I was talking about above.

- Bass. The bass deserves a special comment. At first it seems too large, even a little fuzzy, but if you get used to it you´ll be hearing a bass that seems to be more faithful to the recording than previously. That is, if the bass is exaggerated it appears so, however in well made recordings the bass appears with an almost perfect intonation and depth. In my opinion, if the bass has the right size and it is correctly reproduced, as it is the case in the 09-z9 version, it becomes an essential factor to give the sound that density to which I referred.

Agree 100%. The bass is just right. Switching PA on seems to destroy the fullness a bit too much.

- Palpability. The combination of the three previous sections gives the sound a palpability even greater than at other times. It seems as if the sound had a physical embodiment, as if it could be touched.

Agree 100%. I've just been listening to a whole bunch of female singers - glad the wife's not here

- Volume. With regard to the volume level I'm not sure if in other versions it is as important as it is now. I think that the richness of the sound is volume level dependent, and I guess that it will happen in each system (including the listening room), in my case with the 09-z9 version the better setting is -33db/-31.5db, that's the equivalent to 30db/-28.5db when PeakExtend was active in the other versions which is the volume that was using before most of the time.

I'm in two minds here. On the one hand the sound is phenomenal even at low volumes. On the other hand, I find myself wanting more.

The combination of all what I have said here makes a sound that IMHO is the best so far. I guess that to the extent that Peter will delve into Windows 8 will appear better XXHE versions, which,  although it seems difficult, we all know from experience that it is possible.

I have no idea where we go from here. Peter has tamed the beast that is W8. Actually, he's gone even further than that. In my office system, I keep the LAN connected in order to use remote desktop (I use my work PC to control the music PC, which is just perfect for me) and to stream files across from a NAS drive in my basement, keeping the office/study free of whining HDDs and totally silent (an absolute must for me). I haven't done a lot of playing around with XX settings, but am certain that Q5 is helping to minimize any negative effects of keeping the LAN on. The sound in my office/study is simply superb (music PC -> NOS1 -> Sanders Magtech amp -> Celestion SL600 speakers... all fed off a balanced AC transformer).

I'd encourage those of you still on W7 to take the plunge. W8 is the way forward... IMHO.

Thanks for everything Peter.

Mani.

[juanpmar]

Hi Mani, I'm glad that you agree almost entirely with my views.

With respect to the importance of the volume level to get the best sound quality, I have to say that effectively at lower volumes the sound is also fantastic, I just meant that there is a "perfect" volume level (for each listening room) and that given the high quality of sound achieved with the combination of W8 and XXHighEnd that volume level express better the qualities of the sound. Moreover it seems easier to find this "perfect" volume due to the excellent SQ. Some kind of interdependence.

Regards,
Juan

[PeterSt]

On the volume thing ...

A longer time ago (could be three years) I spent a more extensive post on just that what you (I think) try to describe, Juan;

In aftermath I am fairly sure that this (back then) was dedicated to a certain "XXHighEnd setup" because I didn't notice much of it anymore. BUT :

While in the 0.9z-8 versions of XXHighEnd I just wasn't able to have any right volume setting for W8 *plus* it needed the higher volume to get the sound more detached from the speakers (which was a W8 property I'm sure), today ...

Today that feeling from three years or so ago is back. So, when I understand Juan correctly, I have the exact same feeling. And somehow this is even logic to me, although a bit far out :

What I reasoned out those 3 years ago is that the level is to be of some consistency when you want to perceive the real thing. So, not too loud and also not too soft. What I by accident found is that it just needs to be at real levels. This is where I measurued my baby wing here, saw that it produces 90dBSPL (at one meter distance and wing open) and next tuned my stereo on pianos for just that level. This worked (back then).

As said, I never thought of that anymore, nor did I feel the urge to tune in this sort of reality level, but today with W8 this is so again. And no, I didn't start to think about this because Juan said so. I found that myself which should mean ...

Well, that only if just two persons make the notice, there should be some truth in it. Thus, not for W8 best settings in general, but because there could be truth in our brains liking the real thing the best, which includes the level of sounds we hear around us. Next it should perhaps say that W8 as how it is now is "a very best" because it again urges for this setting, hence it allows us to perceive this realism.

A bit of blahblah, but please notice that I try to work a lot with these kind of things, just like the 0.9z-8 versions pushed me wild in getting any volume right, still have the sense it should be higher than I wanted because of the crazy dynamical sound. It just couldn't be done which is a base indication something is wrong, never mind I too could like many things from W8 in 0.9z-8 already.
So it could be a general measure, important to everyone ...

Thank you for your feedback guys. This is the most important.
Peter

[christoffe]

I'd encourage those of you still on W7 to take the plunge. W8 is the way forward... IMHO.

Mani.

Done. Excellent sound as per your & Juans post.

The installation was smooth without any problems, except XXH will not activate with the new code. (OS minimize is rejected by the program and no red letters)
 
W8 without any updates installed.

SPL volume is at -6dBA via a preamp and there is an exceptional holographic soundstage.

Joachim

[PeterSt]

I have no idea where we go from here. Peter has tamed the beast that is W8. Actually, he's gone even further than that. In my office system, I keep the LAN connected in order to use remote desktop (I use my work PC to control the music PC, which is just perfect for me) and to stream files across from a NAS drive in my basement, keeping the office/study free of whining HDDs and totally silent (an absolute must for me). I haven't done a lot of playing around with XX settings, but am certain that Q5 is helping to minimize any negative effects of keeping the LAN on. The sound in my office/study is simply superb (music PC -> NOS1 -> Sanders Magtech amp -> Celestion SL600 speakers... all fed off a balanced AC transformer).

Mani,

Actually for something I want for myself for conveniency reasons, I already made the code that will allow the NAS ot operate under the jurisdiction of "ALL Services Shut Off", next that anticipating the same procedure as you used before : just shutting all off once the tracks have been loaded for Unattended Playback (that only). I made the code, but never tried it so far. It should work though and at least better for SQ then when letting so many things "on" as how you do it now. Whether optimal - maybe not. But as observed, by now fewer things seem to matter anyway.

Regards,
Peter

[juanpmar]

On the volume thing ...

What I reasoned out those 3 years ago is that the level is to be of some consistency when you want to perceive the real thing. So, not too loud and also not too soft. What I by accident found is that it just needs to be at real levels...

...As said, I never thought of that anymore, nor did I feel the urge to tune in this sort of reality level, but today with W8 this is so again. And no, I didn't start to think about this because Juan said so. I found that myself which should mean ...

Well, that only if just two persons make the notice, there should be some truth in it. Thus, not for W8 best settings in general, but because there could be truth in our brains liking the real thing the best, which includes the level of sounds we hear around us.(highlighting is mine:Juan). Next it should perhaps say that W8 as how it is now is "a very best" because it again urges for this setting, hence it allows us to perceive this realism.

Peter

Very interesting Peter, I think you've managed to summarize in a few sentences what could be a psycho-acoustic treatise 

Strongly agree.

Best regards,
Juan

[Scroobius]

Hi Mani,

Interesting to note yours and others experiences with W8. I have been busy building a system for my brother (I will post about this separately) and have not yet had time to go back to W8 - but I will later this week.

I was wondering though - are you using the PCi "capacitor card" or not?

I had an interesting experience the other night when I removed the card and the sound changed - possibly for the better but I have not had time to properly evaluate it. When I was using z8 it was clear cut the PCi card sounded better now on z9b it is not so clear. Also with the new balanced amp there are other changes so just now I have lost my SQ bearings!!!!

Paul

[PeterSt]

Paul ...



If you like answers to this, please put it in its own topic.
Thank you !
Peter


PS: I feel I am on the edge with this (or your question is - maybe just towards the good side), but I guess my point is that this is not related to XXHighEnd "SQ" and you know my bias towards this not working at all for any decent tweak.