Windows 8 and 09-z9, a match made in heaven?

[juanpmar]

Is Windows 8 and the new version of XXHighEnd (09-z9) the best combination so far between the OS and XXHighEnd?. The answer is, in my opinion YES.
Naturally certain conditions are required, for example, it also requires of a proper hardware configuration in the Music PC (as Peter has suggested in another post http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=2421.msg26705 # msg26705 ), and to find solutions to some problems of W8. Also the other system components require special care. As for example in some aspects as the vibration isolation or having power lines for the sound system separated from the rest of the house.

For the changes implemented in the hardware of my Music Pc I have faithfully followed the recommendations of Peter. I took out from inside the computer the hard drives with music and  I left in the computer the hard drive with OS/XXHighEnd as well as the hard drive I use as Playback Drive both with SATA III connection.
The hdd with music, at this moment 2 x 2TB each, are connected to a self-powered USB 3.0 hub and this hub to an USB 3.0 port in the motherboard. I tested the differences in SQ of the two mb USB 3.0 ports and the remaining free port in the TeckNet USB 3.0 PCIe card until finally I chose the one I think sounded better, that is one in the mb.

With respect to software, I have not touched anything in the W8 BIOS, so it is installed as is (Windows 8 Pro). No updates installed and no virtual memory. That's it.

I've tried almost all the possible combinations of W7 and W8 with previous versions of XXHE and with the latest version. I tested also some combinations of settings in 09-z9 as Phase Alignment on/off, different values ​​for Q5, iPhase off or +/- ON, clock resolution etc. and in the end I used the Peter settings for 09-z9, which for me also sound the best.

As I say W8 and 09-z9 it is in my opinion the best OS/XXHE combination so far. The main differences in SQ I detected with respect to other combinations of OS/XXHE are:

- Detail. The sound is the most detailed I've heard. I used, as always, a few albums I've listened literally hundreds of times. I have discovered new sounds that were hidden and it was an unbelievable surprise. Never before, in any case, I had heard certain sounds that are now perfectly audible.

- Density. The sound is dense and I wish I could explain, dense as I mean is not equal to thick, but a fuller sound with more information, I could define it, for lack of better words, like a more mature sound, more complete.

- Bass. The bass deserves a special comment. At first it seems too large, even a little fuzzy, but if you get used to it you´ll be hearing a bass that seems to be more faithful to the recording than previously. That is, if the bass is exaggerated it appears so, however in well made recordings the bass appears with an almost perfect intonation and depth. In my opinion, if the bass has the right size and it is correctly reproduced, as it is the case in the 09-z9 version, it becomes an essential factor to give the sound that density to which I referred.

- Palpability. The combination of the three previous sections gives the sound a palpability even greater than at other times. It seems as if the sound had a physical embodiment, as if it could be touched.

- Volume. With regard to the volume level I'm not sure if in other versions it is as important as it is now. I think that the richness of the sound is volume level dependent, and I guess that it will happen in each system (including the listening room), in my case with the 09-z9 version the better setting is -33db/-31.5db, that's the equivalent to 30db/-28.5db when PeakExtend was active in the other versions which is the volume that was using before most of the time.

Finally, I would like to comment on other important issues such as the control of vibration and the separate power lines for the rig that also contribute to some extent to the excellent sound of W8/09-z9.

With regard to vibration, if anyone has seen the photos of my system it may have called attention to a number of discs I've placed on the amplifiers and the NOS1. Both have the boxes without sufficient isolation for the vibration (sorry Peter) and if you hit with the fingers on the external plates you can feel that the boxes are not tight. So I put the discs above and also looking for the correct placement that avoids these vibrations, once I placed the  discs hitting with the fingers give a deaf sound. I think it increases the sharpness. The same applies to the foot of NOS1 and amplifiers. In this case it seems that Peter used a Magic Feet or something like that, I use some cones I retained from a Wadia cd player and have placed them, in the case of the NOS1 beneath the four corners and in the center, 5 in total. What I can say at the end is that all these changes contribute to the best sound. To complete the issue of vibrations the external hard drives are suspended by rubber bands, one being a special case Sharkoon and another a wood box with ther rubber bands that I made ​​myself. The computer case has also some pressed rubber feet that I´ve found at a very cheap price. I'll put some pictures in the post HOW I'VE BUILT MY NEW PC FOR XXHIGHEND AND ...

The separate power lines, as it is well known also contribute to the SQ. I have it in my home although in my case I can not have a ground different from that of the building in which I live, I can switch off from the electrical box almost the whole home except the sound system. With respect to the part that concerns the Music PC what I did was take out from the audio circuit (again thanks Peter) the hard drives with music and I have connected it to other independent power breakers of the house and the sound equipment. These hdd are also are connected to a power conditioner.

The combination of all what I have said here makes a sound that IMHO is the best so far. I guess that to the extent that Peter will delve into Windows 8 will appear better XXHE versions, which,  although it seems difficult, we all know from experience that it is possible.

Thanks Peter.

Best regards,
Juan

[AlainGr]

Hi Juan,

After reading your review, I can only concur with your conclusions (altough I do not have such a masterful writing). You put in words perceptions that I can't express right enough, but there are at least 3 things that striked me yesterday as I started a more critical listening.

I was stunned at the bass presence ! I was quite shocked by this as it never felt that way before.

The second thing is that when we switched to 09-7, I felt there was a loss of presence for the most prominent instruments (the ones that are in the "front"), as a trade off for more details. Now these instruments have regained their presence AND the details are still there, without any loss. I should precise: more details than before in fact.

And there is a "blackness" that just render all the music even more alive and striking.

It is the first time I follow suggestions from Peter and many other posters. There is a sense of "family" here that I never found anywhere else.

Thanks Peter, thanks Juan... And thanks to all that share their appreciation, positive critics - all in a respectful manner.

We are in a "micro climate" here and I hope it will stay that way

Alain

[Stanray]

Thanks a lot Juan,

That will motivate me to install W8 and 09-z9!

One question though: For music, do you use a SATA 3 HDD and a converter to connect to the USB 3.0 mb?

Best wishes,
Stanley

[Nick]

I’m a little slow to post on 09-z9 because there have been so many change in my system to settle in (new amp, 2nd balanced mains transformer for my woofer modules etc etc).

So this afternoon I patched with 09-z9b to take a look at the tool tips for Q5. Just for a starting point I tried Q5=10 and Clock at 1ms (I’m using W7), wow  Then moved to SFS of 20 (was 2.5) and again WOW ! The just to see what would happen I put Phase Alignment + on at Phase alignment factor of 2.

W T F

I am L O V I N G 09-z9b and what Q5 is doing here, I totally agree with Juan and Alan about sound characteristics, there is such a sense of palpability.

Now back to listening.

Thanks Peter, 09-z9b is spectacular

EDIT Double Ooops
I thought I was posting in the "09-z9 Impressions" thread. Maybe W7 and 09-z9 are also a match made in heaven haha...

And now the version is z9b not the fictional z9a.

[PeterSt]

To avoid confusion : 0.9z-9a officially does not exist. 0.9z-9b does.

[Stanray]

One question though: For music, do you use a SATA 3 HDD and a converter to connect to the USB 3.0 mb?

Oh, I read your signature: WD USB 3.0 HDD.

OK!

Stanley

[Scroobius]

Hey Nick - Well what can I say? - on this occasion I have to completely disagree with you but it may point to some difference between our systems that needs further investigation.

First I am surprised at how much difference Q5 makes to SQ in this system. When it first appeared it did not seem to make much difference but now it does!

I started at Q5=2 and clock=0.5 and the sound is lively and dynamic. So I set Q5=10 and clock=1 - wow what a difference the sound suddenly sounded much more analogue and easy to listen to. But for me it was not an improvement the sound was flattened and the problems "brushed over" (I was listening to a very poor Tony Allen recording). Actually I preferred to listen to it dynamic warts and all and not "brushed over".

So I listened to a Stekpanna albums always superb SQ - and at Q5=10 & clock=1 the life and dynamics were squashed. Going back to Q5=2 and clock=0.5 was a big improvement. The dynamics and life were back.

No question at least for me the latter sounds much better.

I also tried using Phase Alignment again and found that it makes no noticeable difference, to these ears anyway. PA used to make a significant difference in this system as did SFS. Now SFS makes very little difference to SQ (but like PA it used to make a significant difference).

Well that's the way I hear it anyway.

Cheers

Paul

[Nick]

Paul hi,

It's very interesting that your experience is so different. If I understand what Peter has done with Q5 (from the tool tips) I think that tuning settings might become much more PC specific to motherboards processors and disk types etc. I'm thinking that different PCs may have carateristic periods for operations like memory access, processor scheduling and so on. If Peters Q5 setting is helping to break these characteristic frequencies up and different PC do have specific periods then could be that we will hear very different things on different PCs.

 To explain more about what I'm hearing its actually very like your system, it just sounds so much more real palpable and dynamic, with a much sweeter to end. There real energy in performance with the whole spectrum contributing in a consistent way to the sound.

Might it be that your PC already has a "nice" spread of internal transaction frequencies, so sound is already [extremely  ] good ?

It would be interesting if Mani and Brian could try the settings I posted above as they have the same mobo and processor and this might give some indication of whether or not we are getting to the point of more PC specific settings now.

Perhaps Peter might comment on this ?


Of course it may be that these settings just help with my "noise" problem in some way but I don't think it's that.

We should get a chance to try stuff at mine soon, it would be great to get your opinion on this and generally how things are improving (I hope). You should bring some ear plugs though just in case, haha.

Best Nick.

[juanpmar]

One question though: For music, do you use a SATA 3 HDD and a converter to connect to the USB 3.0 mb?

Oh, I read your signature: WD USB 3.0 HDD.

OK!

Stanley

Hi Stanley, all my music hdd are SATA and I use the external boxes to convert SATA to USB 3.0 to connect it to the mb.
Sorry, I have to update my signature.

I post some pictures here and in I'VE BUILT MY NEW PC FOR XXHIGHEND AND ... with the USB 3.0 boxes, the Anti-vibration discs, etc

Best regards,
Juan

[AlainGr]

Hi Juan,

I like what you did to absorb the vibrations of your external HDDs

I could make a box too to dampen my external cases, but the metallic one - can you tell me a little more about it ?

As for your USB connection to the NOS1, I see what seems to be an adaptor of some kind ?

Regards,

Alain

[juanpmar]

Hi Alain, first let me thank you for your kind words in a previous post.
The external cases for the HDDs are made here in Spain and I bought it in Amazon.es but I guess you can find something similar in any computer shop. See here the manual in Spanish and English http://www.tooq.es/repository/products_manuals/MANUAL_TQE3508_3517_3523.pdf

Sold in Amazon.es for only 15€ (20 $ Canadian)http://www.amazon.es/TooQ-TQE-3523G-Serial-Windows-Ubuntu/dp/B005E0EJAI/ref=sr_1_2?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1370125301&sr=1-2&keywords=Tooq

I use an adaptor to connect the USB 3.0 cable to the NOS1 because the NOS1 is USB2.0, this USB 3.0 cable is connected to the TeckNet USB 3.0 PCI Express Card.

Best regards,
Juan

[AlainGr]

Thanks Juan, I will check the links and keep you posted. I don't know why I never took care of the dampening before... And I do hear the hard drives not only when they work...

You deserve the kind words

Regards,

Alain

[christoffe]

The  NDAS technology by IOCELL with an eSata connection seems to be superior to cases with an USB connection only.

http://www.iocellnetworks.com/neo/images/manuals/manual-netdisksolo.pdf

Joachim

[juanpmar]

The  NDAS technology by IOCELL with an eSata connection seems to be superior to cases with an USB connection only.

http://www.iocellnetworks.com/neo/images/manuals/manual-netdisksolo.pdf

Joachim

Hi Joachim, I tested the eSata connection with a Sharkoon SATA QuickDeck external case and in my experience the eSata port sounds worse than the USB 3.0

http://www.sharkoon.com/?q=en/node/1299

Regards,
Juan

[AlainGr]

Hi Juan,

Could you be more specific about the worsening of the Esata vs  the USB 3 connection ? Since it is possible for me to switch from one to the other... I would have thought that the fact of converting from USB to Sata inside the external case could induce something not desirable... On the other hand, Sata does not allow the same lenght between components, so it may not be practical for those who prefer to put their drives away from the pc...

Alain
Edit: I was wondering if the fact that there is power in the USB  cable (with the signal) would have a negative effect on the signal ? Sata does not have any power on its cable...