PCI supply rail noise

[PeterSt]

Where to buy :

http://www.360searchbuy.com/product/9221283886/%22Assi%22-Skittles-PC-HiFi+power+clean+sound+filter+cards+%28%3Cspan+class%3DH%3EAXF+%3C+span%3E-%3Cspan+class%3DH%3E104+%3C+span%3E%29

Don't ask me whether I'll ever receive something. Needs Mastercard, Visa or another obscure card.
Count on another 4 USD or so for shipping and credit card administration fee.

This is the cheapest :

http://www.360searchbuy.com/product/14884879283/Xsound-Skittles-PC-HiFi+purification+filter+the+power+supply+card+%28%3Cspan+class%3DH%3EAXF+%3C+span%3E-%3Cspan+class%3DH%3E104+%3C+span%3E%29

Don't blame me for anything !
Peter

[PeterSt]

Oh, there's a Pro and a normal version - FWIW. That "cheapest" I denoted is a normal version. The one(s) I bought is the Pro version (like Nick's is).

But I wouldn't count much on what you order is what you get through these (Chinese) routes.

What I see for difference is the Dale resistors on the Pro version. Not that I can see how better (matched ? / temperature independent ?) resistors will do a job here.
But possibly the capacitors are different, with the (my) logical thinking of better matching resonances.

[AlainGr]

Order made...

[PeterSt]

Order made... 

Then expect an email -not addressed to you- with an additional amount to pay because the weight superceeds "small package" or something. I just had to add 14 USD (but I ordered two).
And notice that something is mentioned about this in the order screen(s), and I thought "oh well".

The email was not addressed to my name, but was for me in the end. So now let's wait until my goodies are shipped to that someone else.

haha

[AlainGr]

Yes, I read that too But to make more confusion, I forgot my credit card password and had to redo the transaction. Then I saw that the 2 different orders were taken on my card, so I asked for one of them to be cancelled

Talk about an exciting morning

[juanpmar]

Oh, there's a Pro and a normal version - FWIW. That "cheapest" I denoted is a normal version. The one(s) I bought is the Pro version (like Nick's is).

But I wouldn't count much on what you order is what you get through these (Chinese) routes.

What I see for difference is the Dale resistors on the Pro version. Not that I can see how better (matched ? / temperature independent ?) resistors will do a job here.
But possibly the capacitors are different, with the (my) logical thinking of better matching resonances.

Sh%t!!, I ordered the normal one, in the ebay store they say nothing about other different pro version. The link provided by Nick drove me to the normal card not to the Pro one, probably they were sold out on the Pro version and were selling just the normal one. Price doesn´t seem very different though. I´ll can´t compare it anyway...

Juan

[PeterSt]

But you found it on eBay somewhere ?

And Juan, hey, Pro gear ... that's usually sh*t anyway !

(I mean, when you ordered through my link, I have an email address for you to correct things)

[ptustephen]

The 360searchbuy.com is a reliable website. I also bought  one pro version last month. The product's effect is satisfactory.

[PeterSt]

Thank you for mentioning !
Btw, I wasn't really saying that this isn't reliable, but merely tried to refer to the - as it looks to me - complicated "routes" with all auto-translations and such.

Again thanks, and welcome here of course.
Peter

[Nick]

Maybe there is noise but perhaps less spiky and more evenly distributed who knows - for sure it sounds good though.

Paul, maybe you didn't get it;
Suppose your PCI bus draws such, that there's a (just making up something) 20MHz frequency, a 23.1MHz frequency and a 70MHz frequency hammering on everything. If you now add 20.1MHz, 20.2, 20.3, 20.4, etc. and fill all up up to 70MHz, there is no frequency anymore and it has become "flat noise".
The capacitors will sort of do this because of their (uncontrolled) frequency of loading.

No original peaks will drop because of this and the smoothening happens because the original frequencies can not be profound anymore.

But notice that this means of attacking noise is one big wild guess, because nobody tells how high the amplitudes of the original frequencies are and how high the added are. And you can bet that they are not evenly high by some sort of coincidence;
Now something else happens (has to happen to let it work out) and that is that the added noise must be higher in amplitude than the original. So, more noise really and it could be harmful theoretically. Higher noise but more random (more "real" noise).

To get the real picture (of what I mean and for what's *that* worth !), think about false harmonics (the THD figure); So, your NOS1 has a few and they are ~110dB down. Do we hear them ? possibly. How to solve it ? Add so much noise that the false harmonics vanish in the noise. And now they're really gone. Smart trick.

After another night SQ has improved further.

Yea ? I wouldn't count on that. Or better said : I wouldn't count on anything working really when that is the case. Thus, you are burning in capacitors and now the sound improves. Well, then it is only a matter of waiting until it degrades. And improves again, and degrades.
If you understand the theory (my theory) than you will agree that this is nothing to base your music reproduction on. You blame the washing machine on Monday morning, but actually a bank of caps is in a wild mood. And nicely resonate with eachother at an interval of a minute (slow judder).
But keep in mind, it is you who implied that described process is going on because sound improved. So which psychological way do you want to go ? haha

Mine won't burn in. I forbid them.

Peter


PS: Alain, -thus- Yes.

Peter

The cards have a set of sized capacitors linking +rail voltages to PCIe ground. The caps do not seem to adopt the bypass with a 1/10 to 1/100 of the the next largest vale rule consistently which I why I mentioned them being somewhat randomly chosen values, but given to smallest values used I would expect them the present a low pass filter effective to high frequencies on the supply rails  (made less effective by track lengths etc).

I figured that this would both attenuate fundermantal noise frequencies and smooth transient current draw on the rails. The caps might also fire back their own resonant noise onto the rails, but surly there main effect will be attenuation and smoothing of transient current demands.

My card also significantly changes (improved) with burn in. Not difficult to hear the difference at all with use.

I have ordered a second card just to try two out at the same time. Proberbly the result will be resonance between the banks of caps but you never know 

Cheers,

Nick

[Scroobius]

Not sure I fully understand  - I can see how capacitors may change the frequency distribution and do so in an unpredictable way. I do not see how capacitors can just "add frequencies" (but I have probably have misunderstood you) because they cannot add energy without getting it from somewhere. For sure though they can and will change it.

Sound improving? well yea maybe my imagination playing tricks it would not be the first time ha ha but for sure and without any doubt it sounds good.

P

[AlainGr]

Where to buy :

http://www.360searchbuy.com/product/9221283886/%22Assi%22-Skittles-PC-HiFi+power+clean+sound+filter+cards+%28%3Cspan+class%3DH%3EAXF+%3C+span%3E-%3Cspan+class%3DH%3E104+%3C+span%3E%29

Don't ask me whether I'll ever receive something. Needs Mastercard, Visa or another obscure card.
Count on another 4 USD or so for shipping and credit card administration fee.

This is the cheapest :

http://www.360searchbuy.com/product/14884879283/Xsound-Skittles-PC-HiFi+purification+filter+the+power+supply+card+%28%3Cspan+class%3DH%3EAXF+%3C+span%3E-%3Cspan+class%3DH%3E104+%3C+span%3E%29

Don't blame me for anything !
Peter

From the 2 links you mentionned, it would be the first one that is "PRO" ("DALE" resistors).

I might add that I was well served too

Now the waiting

Alain
PS: I would be interested to know if having two of them changes something for the better

[juanpmar]

But you found it on eBay somewhere ?

And Juan, hey, Pro gear ... that's usually sh*t anyway !

(I mean, when you ordered through my link, I have an email address for you to correct things)

Peter- I ordered the card through the link Nick provided, not yours, when I bought it yesterday it was still at least one for sale.

Now that I see that Nick is going to test two cards at the same time I´ll wait to order the Pro card in case of a favorable conclusion. Maybe at the end I´ll be lucky combining two cards with some different capacitors and resistors.

Juan

[phantomax]

Second thought:
After listening Barshai's Shostakovich 9 and 10th, that always sounded a little bit harsh to me, I can say that now is  better. More separation between instruments and better overall sound, more listenable. Not spectacular but clearly noticeable. And at certain level even a little improvement is at the same time more difficult to reach and, therefore, more welcome.

BTW for those who have placed the card yet, Have you noticed the purple ligth in the dark? I had to remove the rear plate and the leds are quite intense so my PC is now cool tuned. 

Maxi

[juanpmar]

This is another place, a little cheaper, shipment is just $4,60. There are better pictures of both cards the normal one and the PRO, maybe someone can see differences:

http://www.buychina.com/items/asif-skittles-axf-104-diy-computer-chassis-noise-reduction-filter-card-hardware-optimized-power-purification-tpquvusmplm

Juan