Power Amplifier for about 3k€

[Flecko]

Hi All,

long time passed since my last post, so at first: Best greetings to all the people here 

I am in the market for a new power amp. My nice sounding class a Jungson JA-99 needs to be replaced. It meassures and sounds not as good as I would like it to be (look here: http://www.jungson.com/files/reviews/ja99c_uk_review.pdf). At most, the low bandwidth bothers me. It is restrikted to 16kHz and hence there realy is some air missing.

My boundary conditions for a new amp are:
Price about 3k€
At least 100W@8ohm
Good Specs (High Bandwith, Low Distortions and so on...)
No DIY

Does anyone have some suggestions?

At the "paper" I find this one very interesting:
http://www.simaudio.com/moon330A.htm

What is your opinion?

Thank you!!!
Adrian

[juanpmar]

Hi Adrian,

The choice of your amp depends greatly on the speakers you have. If you need at least 100w I guess that they are not in the very sensitive side. The Moon looks a well done amp from a known brand and could be a good election.  Anyway, I´m writing here to make you a suggestion and what could be a better one than my own amps?: Spectron Musician III MK2.
They are class D amps and...so what?. The sound is fantastic and you have plenty of power and bandwith (100kHz). Price is from 2700€ to 3900€ with extras like V-Caps and Bybee filters, ask Paul (Scroobius) about the wonders of Bybee. Besides you can buy one amp and it will work as stereo and if in the future you buy another one you can configure they as monoblocks. That´s what I did and after using many different kinds of amps along the years, tube and solid state, never found an amp sounding better than this one. Well, to tell you the truth I´ve never tried the famous Gainclones  but they seem to be for very sensitive speakers.
 
Well, I wouldn´t need to say that I´m not involved in any way with Spectron, but just in case, I´m only a happy costumer. Oh, I almost forgot it, if at any time you get a NOS1 you´ll get a match made in heaven with the Spectron, at least this is my experience.

Here you can find information about Spectron:

SPECTRON AUDIO: http://www.spectronaudio.com/index.htm

THE ENGINEERING BEHIND SPECTRON SOUND: http://www.spectronaudio.com/tech1.htm

THE MUSICIAN III MK2: http://www.spectronaudio.com/musicianIII.htm

Good luck with your choice and best regards,
Juan

[Flecko]

Thanks Juan. This seems to be a very nice amp. I think the power it has, is more what I should look for. I have 82dB/W speaker with a quite constant 6ohm impedance. Because the bass is a closed cabinet design I need additional headroom of at least 6db for low frequency de-emphasis. So even 100W@8Ohm is probably not enough. The moons are bridgeable too and then they deliver 400W@8ohm. But that would be 6500€. To much at the moment and to close to even better amplifiers in the 10k€ range. The spectron delivers enough power even as a stereo amp. This is a big plus.
Do you know if there are detailed measurements of this amp (alike in stereophile)? I couldn't find anything except the producers specs.

Next saturday I will listen to a McIntosh MC 275 AC with Telefunken Tubes. I know this is not enough power and there is a transformer in the signal chain but this amp (and tubes) has something aluring...I realy should not spend my money on that but I am looking forward very much to hear it.

I got aware of the "not enough power" problem as Mani introduced his Magtech Amplifier. Strange thing: The very informative homepage of Mr. Sanders is not accessible anymore...

@ Mani: If you are around, it would be nice if you could tell me; Where do you see the Magtechs in terms of sound quality in comparison to what you have now?

[manisandher]

Hi Adrian, you can still find the details of the Magtech here: http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/products/amplifiers/magtech-amp.

I like it. Right now it's driving a pair of Celestion SL600 speakers in my office. These are about the same efficiency as yours by the looks of things. I haven't really done a proper comparison between the Magtech and the Sauermann or BD-Design amps I have. I suspect it sounds more weighty than either of these, but perhaps a tad less transparent. It sounds substantially better than any other class AB amp I've ever heard. Certainly it's capable of driving any speakers I've tried it with to crazy levels with simply no fuss whatsoever.

If I were in the market for a commercial amp to drive a pair of inefficient speakers, the Magtech would be at the top of my list.

HTH.

Mani.

[Flecko]

Thanks a lot Mani! And sorry for misspelling your name...The Magtech were, since I heard about them, always on my list. They a are little more expensive than what I have planed but still it looks like a very solid and timeless amp. Plus the "master" himself will build it.

That I cannot open the homepage, seems to be a strange error of (possibly) my webhost. Good to know it is still there.

[juanpmar]

Hi Adrian,

You can find more information below about the Spectron amps. There is at least other person in the forum, that I know, that also have this amp. Its nickname is Rutger21 you can ask him also, he´s a very communicative and friendly guy.

Here you have some links:

Simon from MCV Consulting, he´s a very affordable seller and you can ask him whatever you want to know: http://mcv-consulting.com/cart/spectron-audio-musician-iii-mk2-power-amplifier-with-free-vcap-upgarde-p-94.html?zenid=5a719024b8fc9024cb7ff2185a708188

A review in Enjoy the Music: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0306/spectron_audio_musician_iii.htm

Review in Positive Feedback:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue44/spectron.htm

Review in The Stereo Times:
http://www.stereotimes.com/amp082908.shtml

More reviews from private owners:
http://www.audioreview.com/cat/amplification/amplifiers/spectron/musician-iii/prd_371112_1583crx.aspx

I hope it helps,

Regards,
Juan

[Flecko]

Thanks a lot Juan for your effort! I will will read it with pleasure.

[Eric]

Last year I spend quite some time listening to various amps. Finally I decided for the bridged gainclones mono's from BD-Design. My speakers are not easy to drive, bit it works out very well!!
Just to let you know.

Cheers
Eric

[Flecko]

Thank you Eric for your tip!

Yesterday I was at the Eternal Arts Laboratorium and had a nice listening session with its owner. Besides he was very friendly and helpfull, we had a quite interesting talk and I could listen to a very nice set up. The power amp was a McIntosh MC 275 (which I am thinking about to buy). It was equipped with its original tubes from McIntosh. Source was an Eternal Arts CD player with tube output stage and a PCM 1792A DAC. The same as in my North Star DAC, so the sound was somehow familiar to me. At first we used the internal digital volume control. About the quality of the control I can not say much but that I almost was listening at full output level, because the output voltage of the player was only about 1V. Speakers were Eternal Arts fullrange dipoles with Eton AMT. The bass was also a dipole design. The sound was well balanced with a good illusion of depth. Especially the high frequency resolution was very good. Subtle information were revealed without serving them on a silver plate. They were just there, somtimes far back behind the speakers, with greatest implicitness, with a casual character that made it sound very realistic. The bass was charateristic for a dipole bass, at least as I know it. Subtle, deep, very precise but without much pressure in the stomach. This kind of bass is fascinating but not the one I would grow old with. I prefer the punch of a closed enclosure or a passive radiator design. Nontheless, there was nothing I did not like about what I heard. To point the finger on which influence was made by the McIntosh amp, I asked for a change of speakers. There was a pair if Hobby Hifi wild cards in the listening room and as they were designed by the same designer as my speakers, I choose these. 80db/w is not much and so the output of the CD player was not enough, to fully drive the speakers to a high enough listening level. Hence we added the Eternal Art tube pre amp to the system. Without preamp the sound was quite good, especially if you consider these speakers cost about 300€ a pair (diy)! The sound was more what I m used to listen too. A 2 way design with hornreflex and a dome tweeter. After adding the pre amp, the speakers really began to shine. They formed a three dimensional soundstage with plenty of detail, air, colors and full bodied instruments without sounding thick, slow or grained. This was outstanding until the volume was raised too much and the very small speaker were at its dynamical end. A very odd setup in terms of prices. The speaker costs only 1/100 of the electronics and still sound great in this setup.
To further isolate the sound of the amp, we choose another CD-player. I do not remener the brand but it was not worth reminding this name anyway. The sound stilll was goot and if you would not have heard the magic from before, you would maybe just think, ok with these small and cheap speakers more is not possible.
Since the McIntosh never got in the way and was contributing and a part of the really great sound, i am now really considering to buy it. Still there are some second thoughts about the power, which by math should drive my speakers to 100db or 94 db with 6db bass de emphasis. I am not a loud listener and also do not think to buy an amp for life. So, if I got bored of it, selling a classic is always possible. On the other hand, it is a tube amp and it was repaired at least once. So realiability isn't best with this sort of equipment, which gives me some headaches.
Hope you could enjoy my writing a little and if you would write some comments, I 'll be very glad to read them.
Thank You!
Adrian

[Flecko]

I want to let you know the End of the Story. I drove a second time to the McIntosh dealer, with my DAC, my USB-Interface and my Jungson poweramp. In a direct comparison between the McIntosh and the Jungson it was clear, that each amp had its advantages and disadvantages. In sum I thought it was a tie. And a tie was not worth spending money on the indeed nice tube amp. So I took the road all your advices directed me to. I bought a transistor amplifier. It is not one of the certain models you suggested but something I was looking for a long time. An AudioNET Amp 1 V2. Measurement perfomance is like worldrekord and it has 200W@8ohm. Enough for my room I decided. If not, it can be bridged to become a true balanced 600W@8Ohm amp. But at the moment I do not feel the need for it. It was a big step in neutrality, detail, clarity and so on. None the less, the Jungson is not so far away BUT only for the first impression. The longer I enjoy the "meassurement perfection" the more it get obvious how much better the new amp is. Thanks A LOT for pointing me in the right direction!

Greetings Adrian