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Scroobius
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« on: January 29, 2013, 10:52:38 pm » |
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I just went back to Win 7 for a quick listen. Having listened to Win 8 for a few days the difference was very noticeable. Win 7 sounds smeared (relatively) and less distinct. With Win 8 the individual strands and fine detail of the music stand out. Instruments and voices are more separate more distinct.
The above is with SFS2 in 7 and 8.
P
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621 Xeon 6120 LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 16/32 core with Hyperthreading On (all cores active) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.69 (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Off / WallPaper Off/ OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelino Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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boleary
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« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2013, 02:09:26 pm » |
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Hey Paul, isn't it down right weird that W7 now seems so different to us. What USB driver buffer size are you using in W7?
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XX2.07/MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W10586/32 Gigs 1600 DDR3/ Clarixa usb cable /Q1,3,4,5 = *14*/1/1/*1* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *.02,/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off except LAN & RDC/ Persist off/No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / Boost on/XTweaks : Balanced Load = *40* / Nervous Rate = 1/ Cool when Idle = NA / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Best/ Time Stability = On/ No Up-sampling/R-2R DAC
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manisandher
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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2013, 10:20:30 pm » |
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Guys 'n' Gals,
Those of you who are currently in a position to compare W7 to W8, here's a piece of advice for you. When you're using W7 make sure you have 'Cool when idle' in XTweaks set to 1 and not the recommended 0. I know it says 0 is better, but it's not according to me. 0 sounds dead in comparison to 1. I suspect it's because our PC switching power supplies are working overtime when it's set to 0, and kicking a lot of cr*p back into the mains. Dunno. In any event, if you set it to 1 you'll then be comparing like-for-like with W8 because you should keep it to 1 in W8 for now (a bug or something).
I think this should cure any issues with W7 sounding dull in comparison to W8. It does here at least.
Mani.
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Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.11 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=4.00 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^3 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Stealth II -> Lush^2 -> RME ADI-2 Pro FS R -> Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
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Nick
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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2013, 11:45:26 pm » |
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Hi Guys,
I did a disc format upwards reinstall of windows 7 this week, including re copying all music files. W7 was just ahead of W8 before the rebuild but after the rebuild it has addressed the bass and high end issues i mentioned in the W8 thread, and windows 7 is further ahead.
So today windows 8 also has also had the format up rebuild treatment and tomorrow, will do some listening again. I will try out the cool when idle setting Mani.
One thing that really helped with windows 7 for me was phase intensity set to 3!. I was very surprised by this but in my setup this really works.
Anyway will try W8 again...
Cheers,
Nick
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Audio PC
C621 motherboard, Xeon 40 thread CPU.
w10 14393 RAM OS => XX V2.10 / adaptive mode / XX buffer 4096 / NOS USB driver v 1.02 buffer 16ms / Q1,2,3,4,5 = 10,-,1,1,1 / xQ1 =15 / unattended / SFS 0.69Mb / memory straight continuous / system clock 15.0ms / Threadprio RealTime / Playerprio Low / CPU scheme 3-5 / 16x Arc Prediction / Peak Extend off / Phase alignment off / Phase off / XTweaks : Balanced Load 35 / Nervous Rate 10 (or15) / Cool when Idle n/a / Provide Stable Power 0 / Utilize Cores always 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability On => Lush USB cable => modified NOS1 USB DAC => no pre amp => Orelo active horn loudspeakers with modified bass channel DSPs.
Music server: X99, Xeon 28 thread PC.
System power two 3kva balanced tranformers with dedicated earth spur.
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manisandher
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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2013, 11:43:49 am » |
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When you're using W7 make sure you have 'Cool when idle' in XTweaks set to 1 and not the recommended 0... 0 sounds dead in comparison to 1. Of course, it could well be totally the opposite - that I'm being lured by the dreaded 'false details' that 1 might be introducing. In any event, it's interesting that this setting has such a profound affect on the sound. And it may well be a big factor as to why people are hearing W7 and W8 sounding so differently, if it's set to 0 in W7 and 1 in W8. Mani. |
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Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.11 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=4.00 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^3 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Stealth II -> Lush^2 -> RME ADI-2 Pro FS R -> Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
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manisandher
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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2013, 11:45:46 am » |
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I did a disc format upwards reinstall of windows 7... Hey Nick, what's a 'disc format upwards reinstall'? Mani. |
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Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.11 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=4.00 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^3 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Stealth II -> Lush^2 -> RME ADI-2 Pro FS R -> Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
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PeterSt
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2013, 12:19:26 pm » |
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All,
Not that I see it really going wrong, but it's challenged for that this is going to be a second "My first Windows 8 Experience" topic, and that would not be a good thing.
All is dealt with in the topic mentioned, and at this moment I like to keep it like that.
Thanks,
Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13* (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).
For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10 (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.
Global Moderator
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Nick
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2013, 09:57:39 pm » |
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I did a disc format upwards reinstall of windows 7... Hey Nick, what's a 'disc format upwards reinstall'? Mani. Peter I will put sound quality comments to the other tread  Mani, The "format up install" is nothing special just taking the disk back to repartition it and format it before installing the OS, XXHE etc. I have installed the OS's in 100gb partitions of different HDDs and copies of XXHE and music on a second partitions on each OS disks (one disc for w7 and a separate one for w8). For sound tests I only have one disk connected at a time, either the W7 or W8 HDD and no dvd connected. I was amazed at the difference the new W7 install made last week, I think my old install was probably getting a bit over tweaked . One thing that might be relevant to the really great sound is that I did not install the ASUS P9X79WS x79 intel chip set drivers on the Windows 7 install. This can be done because W7 media doesn't have drivers for the X79 chipset, the result is that Device Manager shows about 30 mobo devices uninstalled. The funny thing is I could swear I have never had W7 sound so good. Anyway, W7 vs W8 impressions in the other post soon. Cheers, Nick. |
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Audio PC
C621 motherboard, Xeon 40 thread CPU.
w10 14393 RAM OS => XX V2.10 / adaptive mode / XX buffer 4096 / NOS USB driver v 1.02 buffer 16ms / Q1,2,3,4,5 = 10,-,1,1,1 / xQ1 =15 / unattended / SFS 0.69Mb / memory straight continuous / system clock 15.0ms / Threadprio RealTime / Playerprio Low / CPU scheme 3-5 / 16x Arc Prediction / Peak Extend off / Phase alignment off / Phase off / XTweaks : Balanced Load 35 / Nervous Rate 10 (or15) / Cool when Idle n/a / Provide Stable Power 0 / Utilize Cores always 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability On => Lush USB cable => modified NOS1 USB DAC => no pre amp => Orelo active horn loudspeakers with modified bass channel DSPs.
Music server: X99, Xeon 28 thread PC.
System power two 3kva balanced tranformers with dedicated earth spur.
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Scroobius
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« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2013, 10:07:45 pm » |
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Nick - that is really interesting because I have just had a similar experience. I have recently installed W7 on one disc and W8 on another (no dual boot any more far too complicated ). In both cases the simplest possible installs - I mean really simple nothing that is not absolutely essential. And guess what I forgot to use the Asus driver install disc so just the MS drivers. The result is that both W8 and W7 both work no stopping no error messages everything just works fine. Also I would say I am getting consistent and great SQ for both W7 and W8. In future I am always going to keep one disc that has the simplest install as the basic music playing disc. I will have a separate disc that is for "development" and playing around with. Paul |
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621 Xeon 6120 LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 16/32 core with Hyperthreading On (all cores active) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.69 (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Off / WallPaper Off/ OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelino Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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Nick
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« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2013, 11:19:24 pm » |
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Paul hi,
It's interesting there may be some consistency.
Both installs here are simple as well without OS tweaks. I'v been playing about with "prioritise background tasks" in computer advanced settings. I'm on the IPad so I can't easily look up a better description on the setting location but I guess you know it. The effect is quite significant in windows 7 with the otherwise simple setup. When set to "prioritise background" the smearing of the highs gets very much better, its very smooth and more like in windows 8. In am not entirely sure if for me the setting is a "keeper" because there is a smidgen of warmth that disappears with the setting but it's interesting how much of the windows 8 sound appears when I set this in windows 7.
In windows 8 setting to prioritise background tasks seems to upset things.
Cheers,
Nick.
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Audio PC
C621 motherboard, Xeon 40 thread CPU.
w10 14393 RAM OS => XX V2.10 / adaptive mode / XX buffer 4096 / NOS USB driver v 1.02 buffer 16ms / Q1,2,3,4,5 = 10,-,1,1,1 / xQ1 =15 / unattended / SFS 0.69Mb / memory straight continuous / system clock 15.0ms / Threadprio RealTime / Playerprio Low / CPU scheme 3-5 / 16x Arc Prediction / Peak Extend off / Phase alignment off / Phase off / XTweaks : Balanced Load 35 / Nervous Rate 10 (or15) / Cool when Idle n/a / Provide Stable Power 0 / Utilize Cores always 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability On => Lush USB cable => modified NOS1 USB DAC => no pre amp => Orelo active horn loudspeakers with modified bass channel DSPs.
Music server: X99, Xeon 28 thread PC.
System power two 3kva balanced tranformers with dedicated earth spur.
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boleary
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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2013, 01:26:31 am » |
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One thing that might be relevant to the really great sound is that I did not install the ASUS P9X79WS x79 intel chip set drivers on the Windows 7 install. This can be done because W7 media doesn't have drivers for the X79 chipset, the result is that Device Manager shows about 30 mobo devices uninstalled. The funny thing is I could swear I have never had W7 sound so good. Glad to hear this Nick cause that's how I've been running my rig from the beginning and I've often wondered about the drivers on the disc. The sound has been so good that I haven't wanted to go through the trouble of A-B'ing the drivers. I think I once even posted a picture of my device manager with all the "uninstalled devices". I haven't played with the "backround Prioities" setting. Will give it a try. |
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XX2.07/MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W10586/32 Gigs 1600 DDR3/ Clarixa usb cable /Q1,3,4,5 = *14*/1/1/*1* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *.02,/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off except LAN & RDC/ Persist off/No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / Boost on/XTweaks : Balanced Load = *40* / Nervous Rate = 1/ Cool when Idle = NA / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Best/ Time Stability = On/ No Up-sampling/R-2R DAC
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