My first Windows 8 experience

[PeterSt]

Tried W7 but that did not work, somehow explorer is corrupted and does not want to start. My guess is that the W8 Shell replacement changed things within the W7 directory...is that even possible?

Bert, I would say not. W8 is in a completely different partition, right ? So how ?

You will probably be right somewhere, but I really don't see how at this time ...

Peter

[BertD]

W7 is working again... It required a complete new install so my listening impressions are with a fresh install.

First impression compared to W8 was dullness... but that disappeared quickly after hearing that cymbal having size, volume and singing instead of smashing aluminium discs.

This sounds much more to a real drum set than through W8.

With W8 those cymbals are "processed" throwing out high frequencies all over the place and out of phase at the same time. This is what disturbs most clearly but everything else is affected the same, it is with this record all over the place.

Under W7 it is stable and natural even though the drum is mixed much too big to my taste unless you want to hear the drum sitting close in front it. My guess is that the mikes were close to the floor while recording... at least it sounds to me like that.

Bert

[PeterSt]

That is not what I wanted to hear Bert. Although that is what I wanted to hear.

Well, I hope you get it.

What a stupid stuff eh ...

Peter

[BertD]

Well, I hope you get it.

What a stupid stuff eh ...

Yes, and yes but stupidly even more is that several other recordings seem to work out for the better using W8.

But that is then probably the additional things less obviously processed in the mix?

Blehhh...

Positive thing is that my W7 is now as clean as it can be after its new installation and re-activation here was not an issue.

Oh well, back to the drawing board!

[PeterSt]

Bert,

Heads up (or down for a few) :
Played with W8 tweaks onto W7 tonight for the first time in full.

Ha - ha.


But as known, I can always change my mind.

[Jud]

Played a couple more kinds of things - Jordi Savall (early music, going as far forward as baroque), and Iron & Wine (a fellow named Sam Beam who does indie pop/rock with assorted instruments and fellow players). 

One advantage of playing the Savall is that just a couple of weeks ago I had the pleasure and privilege of seeing him in concert, sitting directly in front of him perhaps twenty feet away as he played with a small orchestra.  I consider myself very lucky, as he is an absolute world treasure.  (His recordings are not hard to find - I believe he's released over 170 of them!  He plays several stringed/bowed instruments, chiefly viola da gamba, and conducts.)  So I have a very good idea of how he should sound, and how he likes his ensemble to sound.

Certainly with the Savall, and even with Iron & Wine, though less so, I again noticed with Windows 8 the same lack of interplay between instruments and lack of subtle intonations and cues as I did last night with the Hellborg.

Strange that we all should think the instruments and vocals come from such a silent background in Windows 8, yet we can hear so little of the quietest sounds, the microdynamics.

From this (though I could very easily be 180 degrees wrong) I take it that either there must be low level noise in Windows 8 - sufficiently low level we think it's silence, but it isn't really - or that something is cutting off the sound below a certain level but above the usual noise floor.  Otherwise I don't see how sound seems to emerge suddenly from complete silence but I can't hear anything very, very quiet, which a truly silent background and the ability to render low level sounds should utterly reveal.

[fas42]

From this (though I could very easily be 180 degrees wrong) I take it that either there must be low level noise in Windows 8 - sufficiently low level we think it's silence, but it isn't really - or that something is cutting off the sound below a certain level but above the usual noise floor.  Otherwise I don't see how sound seems to emerge suddenly from complete silence but I can't hear anything very, very quiet, which a truly silent background and the ability to render low level sounds should utterly reveal.

Sorry to intrude, but this is a generic problem with much digital: many high end systems using CD players seem to have this weakness. I witnessed this on a friend's setup at one point, using an older, modified Quad player ... and very bizarre it was to hear!

Somehow, the DAC operation is being kneecapped by electrical interference, which has to be eliminated, one way or the other ....

Frank

[PeterSt]

Hey Frank, it seems that you are not around long enough to have read the whole topic. But you really should.

What you say is all right, but not the slightest related to the subject of the topic.
Well, at least let's hope so !!
Haha

Peter

[PeterSt]

Otherwise I don't see how sound seems to emerge suddenly from complete silence but I can't hear anything very, very quiet, which a truly silent background and the ability to render low level sounds should utterly reveal.

Although I too have that strange perception of "not being quiet" I never saw it from this angle (but I hope I understand what you mean in the first place). It makes me think of something else though, that I seem to read in between your lines : that inabililty to have the volume level right for even one track. So, too soft or too loud ? Earlier I called this dynamics and then in the sense of dynamic range. Like the dynamic range has extended - so, the difference between the softest and the loudest in a track;
All I know is that when something is wrong with the byte order this can happen and actually goes unnoticed. In my vision, what could be happening here is that the two least significant bytes have swapped, which makes the lowest and finest details be 256 times more loud while the middle part (of 3 bytes forming 24 bits) now plays at the low end. This makes the mid part disappear and would exhibit this larger dynamics in the area where the most significant byte is not involved (because the music is not loud enough or we attenuate too much).

This again looks like conspiracy thinking, but it would fit my judgement of all being fairly OK while playing very softly. I don't know the level anymore (I told about it in one of the posts) but I recall that I just not lost the complete most significant byte and that one bit was left of it.

The scenario of the 2 least LSBs being swapped, would greatly enhance detail, just because it is boosted by a factor of 256 in decimal, or 48 in dB. This would also boost the "quantization noise" and it would not create much of a black background.

Ok, I'll stop here because it is too far out.

Peter

[fas42]

Which is why I apologised up front. I appreciate that the "battle" is to reconcile differences playing under Windows 7 and 8, but ultimately it's what happens in the DAC that counts. Unless, you are really are doing DSP on the sly ... 

I'll keep my big mouth shut from now on ...!  , 

Frank

[PeterSt]

Mwah. No. Or yes, but no. Not in this context.
So regarding our little subject on W8 - I think you must be somewhat longer around to see that it never happened before that people so much couldn't find agreement.

but ultimately it's what happens in the DAC that counts. Unless, you are really are doing DSP on the sly ... 

Now don't laugh. This is NOT about what happens in the DAC (ultimately or not), and it IS about DSP which seems to be applied.

It won't take long now before I will have proven that ...
Anyone taking bets ?

[Jud]

Mwah. No. Or yes, but no. Not in this context.
So regarding our little subject on W8 - I think you must be somewhat longer around to see that it never happened before that people so much couldn't find agreement.

but ultimately it's what happens in the DAC that counts. Unless, you are really are doing DSP on the sly ... 

Now don't laugh. This is NOT about what happens in the DAC (ultimately or not), and it IS about DSP which seems to be applied.

It won't take long now before I will have proven that ...
Anyone taking bets ?

What part, if any, of the audio foundation in Win8 does XXHE utilize?

[stefanobilliani]

For those in dual ( or more ) boot .

I have been playing last a lot of stuff .
I did find out that XXHE sounds so much different depending on where and how it is installed ! .

Last night then , I have been opening my D disk from windows 8 , D where the W7 installations reside  , and launching XXHE from there , from the original W7 installation folder . Been also able to (re) activate it from W8 and with the new W8 code ( obtained via paypal) .
Voilà . I invite * you * to try this and report about how much difference there is between that and the actual XX installed in W8 ( say C or also Ramdisk ). All I can say is that it plays right : the smearing is gone ( imo ) and the f***ed up caracter also .

One thing , as far as I am concerned , unattended doesnt work , it has to be revised . Minimized is OK . But please no unattended :-)

I used the W7 "explorer " as Admin and in compatibility mode ( W7 again ) .


Have a nice day all

s

Attacched som details of the system and the XXactivated from the D disk .

[PeterSt]

Stefano,

One thing , as far as I am concerned , unattended doesnt work , it has to be revised . Minimized is OK . But please no unattended :-)

It will be a bit of a language problem, but are you saying that when Unattended is used it does not sound good ?
(normal interpretation tells me that you get errors and can't use it, but I don't think you want to say that)

Let us know.
Peter

[stefanobilliani]

Stefano,

One thing , as far as I am concerned , unattended doesnt work , it has to be revised . Minimized is OK . But please no unattended :-)

It will be a bit of a language problem, but are you saying that when Unattended is used it does not sound good ?
(normal interpretation tells me that you get errors and can't use it, but I don't think you want to say that)

Let us know.
Peter

Yesss Peter and all , it means it does work all ok by purpose , but it does suddenly sound another thing from attended , and I don't like it , or does not "sound good " to me .

thanks