My first Windows 8 experience

[PeterSt]

Joachim, I know this sounds crazy, but my first impression of W8 with SFS of 430 is that it sounds harsh compared to SFS of 2! Have you tries SFS of 2?

It is not the harsh sound, in some kind I like it. The astonishing thing is, the room image is gone on my system, and the difference with 16x and 1x upsampling.
I'm just installing W7 for dual boot and will compare.

Well, now what. This is so SO contradictionary to what I perceive here (which as we know by now can't be understood by me) that it now gets REALLY strange.
Still interesting.

Joachim, I hope you didn't flip any NOS1 buttons or Is NOS1 in XXHE Settings with your trials, because that would encourage for real mono ...

Brian, weren't you declared crazy the other day ?
haha

Peter

[PeterSt]

Joachim, can you please confirm or deny this; what I perceive :

1. Indeed a smaller image when I listen from the middle and I think (but must listen again) that even the hard-panning isn't much noticable from the middle (or sweetspot if you like).

2. Once I am not in the middle - up to dead ahead in front of one of the speakers, the hard-panning is crazy and it's if I almost hear the other speaker more than the one I'm in front of. And this at 1 meter or so distance.

For me it's all a bit strange to grasp what I like and don't like because I actually never listen from the sweetspot (or middle). Well, you know my room, and just envision me being in the kitchen, towards the right of it when you enter the room. There I now have it working sort of OK, but the sound is and remains much too far away. Still it is foward.

Btw, no way you need to agree, but is is so strange to begin with, and when you don't agree it gets even more strange.

What *type* of speakers do you use ?

Thanks,
Peter

[juanpmar]

Hi all,

Is it advisable to go to Windows Update after having done a clean install of W8 from the DVD?
Thanks, Ed

Nobody is paying attention to my simple Q, sniff, sniff......

Hi Ed, I´ve just finished my clean W8 installation from a DVD and I have not installed any update. I took the customize path for the settings and I have said no to all the requests Windows asked about internet. I can change my mind later if I want, but by now that´s what I did. I don´t want Windows 8 in my Music Pc but for playing XXHE so don´t need even internet. The great sound I got before was also with no updates at all.
There are other things that I´m not sure if I want like use of a network with the other computers I have at home, also with W8 (a Microsoft account is needed), not sure about the utility of this network for my Music Pc but I can keep off this pc from internet anyway. I also turned off the Windows Firewall and all the notifications.
Now after I finish the XX installation I´ll ask Peter for a new Activation code and will be able to use XX with all the settings. I´ll let you know about my findings.

Best regards,
Juan

[Jud]

Hi all,

Is it advisable to go to Windows Update after having done a clean install of W8 from the DVD?
Thanks, Ed

Nobody is paying attention to my simple Q, sniff, sniff......

If you ever intend to be connected to the Internet at any time with that machine (e.g., to download a new XXHE) then yes, because many of the updates are for security.  And at least one update (one of the .Net versions, 3.x if I remember right) is necessary just to run XXHE.

[Jud]

Peter, by the way - don't know whether it's the W7 shell app or XXHE that's causing it, but using XXHE in Win 8 on my computer causes my desktop background image to shrink horizontally so it doesn't cover the last inch on left and right side of the monitor.  The OS itself works OK in this respect, it seems - that is, my recycle bin, which is the only desktop icon I have, sits within less than an inch of the left edge as it always does, but it sits on top of an inch of black background rather than the desktop background picture.

The background is a slideshow, one of the downloadable Windows 8 themes from MS, called "Forest" or something like that.  After the background image shrinks, it can be cured by going into desktop settings, switching to the regular "Forest" background theme, then deleting the unnamed "custom" theme with the too-narrow background that has been substituted.

Can give you my monitor specs and settings if helpful.  It's widescreen, a 16:10 or 16:9 aspect ratio, I think.

[juanpmar]

Hi all,

Is it advisable to go to Windows Update after having done a clean install of W8 from the DVD?
Thanks, Ed

Nobody is paying attention to my simple Q, sniff, sniff......

If you ever intend to be connected to the Internet at any time with that machine (e.g., to download a new XXHE) then yes, because many of the updates are for security.  And at least one update (one of the .Net versions, 3.x if I remember right) is necessary just to run XXHE.

Hi Jud, to install .NET Framework 3.5 required for XX you don´t need to have any update installed in your computer, it is installed automatically. What we don´t know yet is if the updates in W8 play the same role as in W7, I mean the influence in SQ.

Regards,
Juan

[stefanobilliani]

Peter, by the way - don't know whether it's the W7 shell app or XXHE that's causing it, but using XXHE in Win 8 on my computer causes my desktop background image to shrink horizontally so it doesn't cover the last inch on left and right side of the monitor.  The OS itself works OK in this respect, it seems - that is, my recycle bin, which is the only desktop icon I have, sits within less than an inch of the left edge as it always does, but it sits on top of an inch of black background rather than the desktop background picture.

The background is a slideshow, one of the downloadable Windows 8 themes from MS, called "Forest" or something like that.  After the background image shrinks, it can be cured by going into desktop settings, switching to the regular "Forest" background theme, then deleting the unnamed "custom" theme with the too-narrow background that has been substituted.

Can give you my monitor specs and settings if helpful.  It's widescreen, a 16:10 or 16:9 aspect ratio, I think.

just for the record in my system i obtain the same exact behaviour as described above . 16 : 9 screen 1600 times 900 . But it does not bother me . Stefano

[christoffe]

Joachim, I hope you didn't flip any NOS1 buttons or Is NOS1 in XXHE Settings with your trials, because that would encourage for real mono ...

Brian, weren't you declared crazy the other day ?
haha
Peter

Hi Peter,
I 'm back (dual boot) to W7 and listening with the same settings as used to.
A good reference song with left/right separations is the  "Tsunami Song" played by Kenny Garrett. Right side an Erhu, center piano, left a violin. On both sides the location of instruments is just near the speakers. Instruments have a normal physical size. SQ is warm without harshness.

With W8 the instruments moved more to the center and the physical size of the instruments seems to be bigger as normal.

 The reg. code applied for W7 in late December is not working and I have to .... a new one.

Now I'm going back to W8, check the driver setting and play XXH wit the identical settings.

Speakers (no horns) see my sign.

Joachim

[Jud]

Hi all,

Is it advisable to go to Windows Update after having done a clean install of W8 from the DVD?
Thanks, Ed

Nobody is paying attention to my simple Q, sniff, sniff......

If you ever intend to be connected to the Internet at any time with that machine (e.g., to download a new XXHE) then yes, because many of the updates are for security.  And at least one update (one of the .Net versions, 3.x if I remember right) is necessary just to run XXHE.

Hi Jud, to install .NET Framework 3.5 required for XX you don´t need to have any update installed in your computer, it is installed automatically. What we don´t know yet is if the updates in W8 play the same role as in W7, I mean the influence in SQ.

Regards,
Juan

Juan, you have my meaning backwards (likely due to the fact I did a bad job of making my meaning clear).  :-)  I did not mean one needs W8 updates to run XXHE.  I meant one needs to be connected to the Internet for the "automatic" install of .Net Framework 3.5; and if one is going to be connected to the Internet, then it is best to have the security updates for W8.

[ed linssen]

Thanks Jud, Juanpmar, Peter, Christoffe!
I think I know what to do.
Ed

[AlainGr]

Hi Peter,

No horns here. I leave this to the cavalry

My first feelings about the sound as I recall (compared to W7) was that it sounded "sharper". And while W7 seemed at first more coherent, I also noticed that the sound seemed to come more from the speakers than usual...

As if there was some kind of "inverted differential" mechanism trimming a part of the "common sounds" from the 2 channels.... Just an image of course...

Alain

Edit: As for the updates, I let Windows do its stuff. I installed it right from its arrival at the end of October (when it was officialy launched). While I agree that it could be best not to do so (the security issues would not be needed for those who do not directly connect to the Internet), my thought was that as a "new" version, maybe there could be early bugs that were corrected... I understand that this logic of mine was more driven by "let it be so" instead of "no way"...

[manisandher]

I've just spent a few hours listening in total bliss, with not a care about SQ whatsoever (almost). It's been a very, very long time since this has happened. Something is definitely 'right' about W8. And I agree 100% with Peter's observations - a super high SFS is the way to go. I'm on 430/30/20 and it's going to stay this way. I reverted back to phase strength = 0 before my listening session and again this is going to stay.

I think things are very system-dependent. Having followed 'Nick's Tweaks' religiously, I'm getting loads and loads of detail coming through with these high SFS settings. But I'm not sure this would have been the case otherwise.

I've updated my sig.

Mani.

[boleary]

Like everyone so far, the first sounds of W8 made me feel "Wow." After a while of listening I began to hear the midrange, I think that's what it is, sound fat or bloated, regardless of the SFS. Reverting back to W7  I instantly felt what Bert described earlier: W7 sounds more natural, less colored and, therefore, I think, more like music. But what is it about W8 that it gives such a great first impression? I want that too!

I think W8 addresses a kind of harshness in W7 but at too high a cost: the midrange is now too "wide."

Here, the area of harshness in W7 is relatively small and best controlled with volume and, as I learned today, the device buffer size of the DAC. Because I am able to play up to 6db, with some tracks, too loud, I have taken to being very careful to find the most "accurate" volume. When I really take the time to do that neither harshness nor a muffled sound are significant issues in W7. I've begun to makes playlists using an SPL meter some guy was understanding enough to give me. See pic below.

W8 has been challenging at high SFS settings in my system. Every tune stops half way through. I've tried many tracks so I've had a good listen to the 430 SFS sound. One thing that strikes me is that the difference between high and low SFS's in W8 are not nearly as significant as they are in W7. In my system there's not a lot of difference between 2 and 430, whereas in W7 the difference between 2 and 430 is like night and day (2 being day!)  .

Trying to get tracks to play through I started playing with the device buffer sizes. Doing this I discovered another difference between the OS's. In W8 higher sizes up to 16 thinned out the fat lady. The mid range becomes leaner and to these ears, W8 improves. W7 does just the opposite, the sound gets a bit fatter and/or smoother with higher device buffer settings. If it doesnt, please stick a tag on me: certifiably crazy. I've spent a few hours on this today.

My favorite W8 settings as of now are device buffer @16, SFS of 100, Q1 @16 and xQ1 @2. Everything else is either as Peter advised in this thread or as in my signature. Very W7ish, might even be better than W7 the more I listen. (I've been trying to write this for a few hours...... The red "Warning" at the top of my "Post Reply" page says 8 new replies have been posted....maybe you guys have this figured out? Guess I'll go check.   )

[manisandher]

W8 has been challenging at high SFS settings in my system. Every tune stops half way through.

Brian, I'm a little surprised about this. Our setups aren't vastly different and yet I've been playing whole albums after each other with no issues whatsoever. Of course, with such high SFS settings, I'm having to wait 20 secs or so for XX to respond to any command (Alt-U for example), and I get a repeat of about 5 secs of the last track of an album right at the end... but absolutely no tracks have stopped of their own accord here, after 4 hours or so of playing.

What really amazes me is that amount of detail there is at these high SFS settings. Not at all like things were in W7 - in W7 I wouldn't have lasted more than 20 secs through the first track because everything would have sounded like a thick woollen blanket had been placed on it. But for 4 hours, I was pretty much mesmerized. I don't really know how to describe it. The detail is there without being pushed in your face.

I get what you say about the midrange though. But I like it. It's got the same sort of bite as when you're standing next to a real instrument being played. No rounded transients, just as straight as it comes.

Mani.

[boleary]

Hey Mani, its really interesting how the detail remains with the higher SFS in W8. I guess that's part of what i mean when I say the difference between a SFS of 2 and 430 is small compared to W7. Next time you are in the mood for fiddling, set the device buffer in the XX " device control panel" to 16. Be interested in your impression.

I must have a conflict somewhere that keeps tracks from playing all the way through with a SFS of 430. Changing the device buffer didn't help.

I think I'll spend the rest of the evening with W8, no more A-Bing today.