9Z-8a and SFS

[listening]

Tried with the settings in the my signature and the XTweaks ones that you are using and changed down to SFS=2. I did not hear these ticks even with high volume.

@Peter: 

Big Step!

Georg

[PeterSt]

To those receiving them ticks :

Can you focus on tracks from different origine (including different rip means) ? I mean, I have the hunch that this can happen after playing one "origine" and next play another (without killing XXEngine3.exe in between). I think that it is allowed to press stop in between the tracks, or just play one till the end and then start the other. Attended is allowed.

This could be about header data being different between them, and my "solutions" to let all work fail somewhere.

Peter

[PeterSt]

Paul, and others too : forget about my high-SFS stress for a while ... This is what (just) happened (and let it be annecdotical) :

Remember my "nasty" ? This is what I tried (I think) day before yesterday. Ok.

I just started Playback, and ... tick-tick-tick-tick.

Ok, now what ? SFS is at 2 ? yep, it sounded like that. Now what ? forgot to set it back from this "nasty" trial ?
But this preceeds it all :

Christmas morning I put up some 24/192 recording from tape. While recording I recalled it as OK, although that was through  headphone listening (I'm totally unexperienced with that). Btw, Mani will know what recordings I am talking about. Well, shut it off within 5 minutes. One thick multi-layer of blankets. Sh*t; thought those recordings where nice.
Later ... tried another out of the three tapes I recorded. Again unlistenable. Too bad. Bye.

Yesterday morning. Let's try the last of the set of three. Hey, now what ?? why is this sounding better ? no, sounding good ? Strange. Must have been a better recording to tape back at the time (1971). Ok, nice after all.

Then came last night. We were supposed to have dinner at some distance. Needed some long running Christmas music. What the heck, let's have that blanketed stuff. Nobody will hear anyway at the distance (a room down the hall). But ... what ?? wait ... it sounds normal now ?
NO clue.

Then came tonight. The tick-tick-tick-tick (so, from 24/192 to 16/44.1, the fformer output at 768 the latter at 705.6). Yep, I said it : some change of origine which is similar to change of format. So, last night the lot stopped when all was played and this was 24/192 (upsampled 4x). Aha, see ? NOW I have them ticks too. Killed Engine3 - ticks vanished. Good. As expected.

But the story is clear isn't it ? those tapes are completely blanketed with the higher SFS. And totally-not with SFS=2. And not by a small margin. It's ridiculous actually.
And at some stage I forgot to set back that SFS ...

So much for how I want it to be ...

Peter (right now playing with SFS=2, but with music of which I know it can have it - not nasty for sure - I'm in denial).

[Scroobius]

Peter - could that be another bottle of scotch ? ha ha  I have not finished the other

[Scroobius]

Peter - Ihave tried what you suggest I started with an album played after listening to another album that was OK and ticking started. I stopped the track switched of Engine4 restarted and no ticks. But then tried 3-4 different CD's but no ticks yet. So just now not much to report.

I am at Mani's tomorrow (with the mystery feet in my pocket ha ha) so it may be a day or so before I can check again.

[boleary]

Peter, great story. I've been walking around the last few days just shaking my head wondering how such different results could be the case. Not that there aren't individual preferences but the difference is too "objectively hearable." I think being in denial at times is necessary to work through things. Thanks to your bullheadedness we only get to listen to some of the best sounding music reproduction on the planet.

Now, about those ticks. They are certainly strange. I found three tracks where they behave very differently. On one they are constant; on another they only happpen with loud sustained vocal notes, they go away in the track when the vocals and music are softer; and the last has no ticks whatsoever. All have different header formats. Two were ripped by EAC and one with dbpoweramp. I sent you and email about them.

[PeterSt]

Ok, I don't think it is necessary to further sort out things about those ticks; They clearly can be there and it is about something I changed the other day. I will be able to find that and undo it. It will bring back some other problem, but hey, it gives me something to do, right ?

Edit : Merely for myself :
Ah, I already know what was changed : When in the same playlist an HDCD and normal were there, these ticks emerged at going from the one to the other. So look what I'm capable of : I solve that small problem, and introduce it in all of the other combinations. Smart eh ?

[PeterSt]

Brian,

You got me a nice one with Alison Krauss.
Your descrption (via email) "ticks only with louder sustained note" made me focus on that, and I didn't hear a thing (SFS=2, PA On, Strength = 1). But towards the end the guitar becomes somewhat more profound and the attack of the strings is somewhat similar to "ticks". And then something didn't fit. It ticks. But once heard, it is easily to perceive that it ticks all over. Right from the start. But now :

No ticks when PA is Off. And now I am totally puzzled. I don't see how that can happen, but it does.

Important point here is : the ticks sound completely the same as when I have the situation for whatever reason and which I can not mimic (notice my description elsewhere from playing a Hires and a Redbook after that). The mere importance is that because this is sounding the same it should be the same problem. And somehow in this track it is always there so I can work from here as it seems.

You didn't tell how this track was ripped. Please do.

Thanks,
Peter

[phantomax]

Hello,
I got some subtle and sporadic tics with the Z7-5 settings just like when I had the Q1 too low. So I tried higher setting from Q1x2 to x3 but, with SFS at 2, there was not possible in my system so I tried the other way down: the Q1x from 2 to 1 and the tics seems to be gone.

And the sound... OMG  . After adjusting some other settings the level of detail is atonishing. With orchestral complex passages, like those in Mahler symphonies, the clarity of the percussion instruments is outstanding. Before there were very good but now my Grado's has become a stethoscope. A giant step forward. Great job Peter.
BTW I was suspecting a gift like that because you were so silent after the HPET thread.

Best regards

Maxi

[PeterSt]

Ok, I'm typing a but in the blind now ...
It seems more complicated.

After this I played your Murray Perahis. Description "ticks constantly and ripped with dBPowerAmp". It ticks alright.

Then I killed Engine3 and played it again. No ticks anymore. Hmm. Tried Alison Krauss again. No ticks ? But I let it play.

Around the 2:20 mark strange things happen. I never heard it before, but this maybe because I didn't listen precisely to "this". So, what seems to happen there is a change of DC. I can feel it, but it's also audible as anomalies. And then, somewhat further ticking starts ...
Probably nothing different from how I perceived it at first.
Ticking was more faint now though.

Playing Alison from the start sometimes shows a faint tick, but as said, this is difficult to perceive because of the "frequent" string attacks which here by accident can fall together with the ticking (at SFS=2). But I could hear it.

Then playing Murray Perahis again, and no way the ticks were at the same level as before. But I could hear them.

Again I don't know how, but it now seems that the track data can incur for it herself. Like what happens around the 2:20 mark with Alison Krauss. And it stays in there until Engine3 is killed. Nice.

[PeterSt]

Brian - About Alison Krauss :

Start a few seconds before 2:18 but watch the 2:18 mark.
Start a few seconds before 3:08 but watch the 3:08 mark.

In both cases you hear the anomalies I'm talking about (watch the part her voice staying at the same key and level while something's going up an down in a synthesized fashion ~ 4 times per second).

Remember you at first described it in a for me not understandable fashion ? about "sustained notes" ? later you corrected that (email ?) but it IS about sustained notes. And it is in the file data ... Looks very odd and a repetition of the exact same pattern each 0.03 seconds. It is not this what you will hear (repeats too fast) but the resonant of it (where a larger part of this repeats - comes together (hard to explain)).

I have the same track here (but with a 1 second track length difference) and without looking at the data, the anomaly sounds the same. Btw, with both PA On and Off.

How this relates to ticks starting to emerge - beats me. I probably see ghosts. Fact seems to be that the repeating of the anomaly has the same frequency as the ticks (with SFS=2 ).

Of course the ticks themselves never occurred anymore after this repetitive trying. Maybe that needs playing the track from the start ?
Crazy thing.

[boleary]

Peter, the ticks are among the strangest thing I've experienced with XXHighend. The Allison Kraus was ripped with EAC. That track is one of my reference tracks and until Z8 I never heard the ticks. It's very strange how they seem to become more "intense" with the loud sustained notes. Glad to hear I'm not the only one hearing that! Waiting for your "fix", I've been listening with a SFS of 12 or 14. To these ears, the SQ improvement with Z8 is as "large" as the introduction of PA. Best Xmas present I've gotten in years. 

[PeterSt]

Yea Brain, I didn't want to say it, but it indeed is as if we now hear anomalies which were always in there. And notice that in the Release Notes I really wanted to say :

That tick at the first SFS change (which has been there for ages) is now more profound, but this will be because it's just better audible now.

... But I wasn't sure about it and I thus left that out.

In the mean time, half of a day later, I am able to 100% mimic the starting of the ticks. And indeed from a 24/96 into a 16/44.1 track - just at Attended and never press Stop. It might be "header" related and thus far nothing that I changed in the area and was reverted today, helps it go away. But at least I can mimic it now and that is the most important on to the solution.

Regards,
Peter

[PeterSt]

The ticks I have been hunting for have been solved. Finally ...

I thought I'd never find it.

[Gerard]

The ticks I have been hunting for have been solved. Finally ...

I thought I'd never find it.

Goed bezig!!