Still some ticks with 0.9z-7-5

[PeterSt]

or even turn off the main amps before the end of playlist if I am done with the listening session.

Haha Praphan, that really would go too far, wouldn't it ?
Anyway, I will look into this now. I mean, there must be some truth in the difference here.

Thanks,
Peter

[PeterSt]

But instead an inaudible mild LF plop *each and every time* the volume is changed with about 3-4 second delay after the command.

So, try to understand this :

The change applied at Volume Change goes faster the smaller the SFS is. In this case this is NOT related to the net buffer settings. Now :

Depending on the "speed" of change needed, this will be low level frequency or higher level; when it will be too high for your Bass-Mid XOver it won't be thrown through your woofer but through the mid(/high). This is how a thump because a mere tick. And also :
Once it works wrongly (which it did u/i 0.9z-7-4) it is a high transient hence firm tick. So, it is the "art of the skill" to have it as low as possible but not too low because it would be to much "sub low" make the house shake, and don't make it too high because it will be too transient and imply a tick.

Now you will understand how the lower SFS will create higher SPL and higher frequency, although it would be a one-direction pulse only. This is also how the mere "thump" is more convenient than the high transient tick.

At stop though, all is also dependend on the net buffer size because it is -thus far- too difficult to spreak the fade-out over more than two buffers. This can be critical because at e.g. a Q1 of 1, Q1F of 1 and Device Buffer Size of, say, 512 samples, the fade-out happens in 1024 samples. Next imagine how at a speed of 705600 samples per second these 1024 samples only pass. This is FAST. But now we can see that it is also related to tyhe sampling speed. So, what is relativey easy-peasy for 24/88.2 is already 8 times more critical at 24/705.6. Add to this that the volume level itself plays a main role and ...

well, maybe we can see how difficult it is to give guidelines as I tried earlier on, but also how sheer infinite testing has to be to test it all (and not forget a few combinations).

But I sure hope it has become a bit more clear now.
And maybe it has also become clear by now what happens if only one sample is missing in the stream.
Yea ?
Well, a fade-out as we talk about it here within one sample. Plus a fade-in (when the stream continues) of again 1 sample.
And then to think that ever back we had all these problems of W7 where half of us suffered from hiccups and stuff because in W7 the priority arrangements changed. No, that would not be much suitable for what we're trying to accomplish with Arc Prediction.
So think og it again : 705600 (or 768000) samples per second which technically are 705600 x 2 x 4 single bytes = 5,644,800 bytes per second which must totally 100% keep on streaming and in line etc. and in between that something asynchronous like async USB is to operate;

Before 0.9z-7 you could say it was quite full of small glitches but nobody could notice; you won't hear one sample missing. Still, now that is out by guarantee (Phase Alignment is the proof, or otherwise you'd hear the highest transient ticks for sure) - SQ should have improved for this reason alone.

Ok, so far for now ...
Regards,
Peter

[PeterSt]

Hi Peter,
I like to tell my experiences with 7-5. Since I use a 24bits Audiophilleo I can use PA now for the first time.
As DAC and Pre I use a NAD M51 with digital volume control. So the Digital Attenuation is fixed set to -10.5. I only have soft cracks during volume changes on the dac.
At stop I do not have a crack with Phase (-) but when I use Phase (+) I get a louder crackling sound on my right speaker at stop. So I stick to Phase (-). At stop I get a small repeat before it stops.
So far I really like the sound!
kind regards

Nice to hear Arjan. Thanks for sharing.

And about the Ph+ (at Normal Phase) ... I tend to remove it. It only makes things more complicated and officially it can't work anyway. It's only that I can't reason out well whether in "circumstances" Ph+ could be beneficial at Normal Phase.

Regards,
Peter

[praphan]

Thanks for a clearer explanation on things going on during and the end of the streaming process with PA feature engaged.

Seems to me that PA has added more data crunching complexity to the streaming process (as opposed to non-PA streaming) so much that any interruption like changing volume or applying next/stop require meticulous handling of sample data to make sure nothing will be lost so much that glitches can be generated in an audible frequency band. The compromise is to put those glitches into LF band with minimum amplitude so we don't feel the earth quake!  Wow ! What an art of coding you have done!

Not sure what I understand above  is something in a right direction.

Thanks,
Praphan

[arvind]

Hi Peter,

SFS =2 gives the best SQ in my set up. However it is accompanied with some problems.

Firstly there is still a loud tick within the first 10/15 secs. Secondly after 15/20 mins of playback there are a series of ticks for about half a second. Thirdly there is a loud LF thump at clicking stop.

Best regards,

Arvind

[praphan]

Firstly there is still a loud tick within the first 10/15 secs.

Secondly after 15/20 mins of playback there are a series of ticks for about half a second.

Thirdly there is a loud LF thump at clicking stop.

Hi Arvind,

So these are related to PA engagement.

1. The first tick should be related to Wallpaper. You may like to try to extend the delay in engaging PA by increase the SFS round parameter.

2. I used to have a constant tick, tick , tick ,tick......... But for my case, it is track specific especially some albums copied from a friend of mine who ripped his albums into AIFF (illegal may be  )  This implies glitches in the streaming process.

3. LF pulse at the end of track or changing track is inaudible for my case. But I can see a large excursion on the woofer. Harmless though. You may like to change your SFS to 2/2 to see if it is inaudible.

Praphan

[PeterSt]

Firstly there is still a loud tick within the first 10/15 secs.

What Praphan said.

Secondly after 15/20 mins of playback there are a series of ticks for about half a second.

Seems a typicle case of trackboundary and something being too slow. BUT, maybe your logging is on. This is sure not advisable for the lower SFS range !

Thirdly there is a loud LF thump at clicking stop.

Is your Q1 still at 14 (like your sug tells) ? That, with Q1F at 1 and DevBufSize of 4096 should be okay for the NOS1.
Also, it depends a bit on how you experience the "thump". So, it is very low frequency if all is right. Could even shake your doors. But with Q1 (etc.) too low, it will be more towards higher frequency up to a louder tick.
But otherwise it is completely normal or at least unavoidable at the lower SFS settings.
And of course the "Intensitity" plays a role. So, the higher that is, the more firm the effect. Volume level the same.

I hope this helps somewhat ...
Regards,
Peter

[PeterSt]

2. I used to have a constant tick, tick , tick ,tick......... But for my case, it is track specific especially some albums copied from a friend of mine who ripped his albums into AIFF (illegal may be  )  This implies glitches in the streaming process.

Hey Praphan, this is interesting, and should be related to my inability to remove the ticks between tracks *and* in between track parts (at SFS boundaries). So, always one of these phenomena is there and it is so for years, as we know. However, I can see on the analyser that it is in between track parts as well and in a fashion of which I thought it should be audible. But ...

But now your text 100% goes in the direction of other data in the header than what's "minimal" (could be embedded Coverart, whatever), and my test signals also contain some other data ...

Shall this finally lead to the solution of those ticks ?

Peter


PS: So, most probably there's nothing wrong with those rips, illegal or not. It is just that I (now think I) am doing something wrong with those headers, and AIFF is prone to contain more than the "minimum".

[arvind]

Firstly there is still a loud tick within the first 10/15 secs.

What Praphan said.

Secondly after 15/20 mins of playback there are a series of ticks for about half a second.

Seems a typicle case of trackboundary and something being too slow. BUT, maybe your logging is on. This is sure not advisable for the lower SFS range !

Thirdly there is a loud LF thump at clicking stop.

Is your Q1 still at 14 (like your sug tells) ? That, with Q1F at 1 and DevBufSize of 4096 should be okay for the NOS1.
Also, it depends a bit on how you experience the "thump". So, it is very low frequency if all is right. Could even shake your doors. But with Q1 (etc.) too low, it will be more towards higher frequency up to a louder tick.
But otherwise it is completely normal or at least unavoidable at the lower SFS settings.
And of course the "Intensitity" plays a role. So, the higher that is, the more firm the effect. Volume level the same.

I hope this helps somewhat ...
Regards,
Peter

Hi Peter/Praphan,

SFS rounds is set to 9, which is the max.

Logging is switched off but the series of ticks continue.

Best regards,

Arvind

[PeterSt]

Hi Arvind,

You said "after 15/20 minutes";
Can you try to find some (classical) piece which lasts 30 minutes or longer, or anyway which can tell you whether these series of ticks indeed happen at the track boundary ?
Notice that testing with 10 minutes or so may not incur for "proper results". So, longer than your said 20 minutes will. Thus, *or* the ticks now will happen after this longer track has been played (a next one coming behind it), or it's still at your 15/20 minutes. The result may tell me something.

Important : Do notice that you are not in Minimized OS Mode (derived form the other topic), so I am not sure whether this all isn't a moot thing in the first place (read : better solve that first !).

Regards,
Peter

[arvind]

Hi Arvind,

You said "after 15/20 minutes";
Can you try to find some (classical) piece which lasts 30 minutes or longer, or anyway which can tell you whether these series of ticks indeed happen at the track boundary ?
Notice that testing with 10 minutes or so may not incur for "proper results". So, longer than your said 20 minutes will. Thus, *or* the ticks now will happen after this longer track has been played (a next one coming behind it), or it's still at your 15/20 minutes. The result may tell me something.

Important : Do notice that you are not in Minimized OS Mode (derived form the other topic), so I am not sure whether this all isn't a moot thing in the first place (read : better solve that first !).

Regards,
Peter

Hi Peter,

After min OS the situation has changed significantly. I have changed to 60 SFS with SFS round =1. Now I get one tick within a min at the start of the first track, none after that. The series of ticks after 15/20 mins has disappeared. At stop playback there is a LF thump but the intensity is much lower than earlier.

Best regards,

Arvind

[PeterSt]

Okay Arvind - great.

That tick after one minute (with an SFS of 60 that is) is my bad. I am working on solving that ...

Best regards,
Peter