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Author Topic: My amazing sonic journey  (Read 8787 times)
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benananda
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« on: September 22, 2012, 10:27:12 am »

Hello, everyone.  I'm a newb, but I've learned so much in the past month.  If you'd like to get to the MIRACLE I have discovered just skip to the next paragraph.  So I built my new computer a couple months ago for gaming and HTPC with music fidelity in mind.  I'd like to share a few of my findings with you.  First, you guys are totally spot on about how SSD flat out ruins the sound.  Music's on spinning disk now.  The OS is still on the SSD for speed, I don't know if I should be putting it all on the spinning disk or not.  Speaking of the spinning disk, it's SATA2, but I found a discernible difference when I plugged it into the STAT3 port of my motherboard.  Perhaps its a better quality port, or something about the way the bus works?  Dunno.  Also, very important to note for Ivy Bridge users; the new lucid virtu feature allows you to use the onboard video.  I thought saving some wattage by using onboard video would be good for the system, but with SPDIF out (where I thought there'd be no difference) the sound was more muddied when video was routed through Ivy Bridge.  When turned off and using the video card the sound was clear.  I only did brief tests here, and don't know if it applies to USB use.

Now, to the good part.  xxhighend was a favorite in it's last 6c incarnation on my old PC.  But I noticed it was a bit harsh to the sound compared to what I was able to get off jPlay. New PC, new xxhighend, I crown it the king once more, but not without a little work.  Overall, XHE is comparable to jplay with jplay much easier to get the "natural" sound. XHE can still make things harsh if you tweak it that way.  But I tweaked as much as I can with the demo and have discovered something REVOLUTIONARY!  I don't know if anyone else has had this experience, as it's the first time possible(with me) using the new Q1Factor.  Let me start at the beginning:  I decided to move from WASAPI to KS: and then Adaptive to Special after finding the correct buffer size for my DAC (Matrix mini-i through USB).  With Special I had limited options with Q1, able to go from 1 to 3 before distortion set in.  Three "seemed" best, but it wasn't that much better than Adaptive, and I generally liked the more relaxed Adaptive.  And THEN....Then I did something crazy.  I used the Q1Factor.  I could only set the multiple to 2; that didn't really do anything when Q1 was set to 1, and set to 3 there would be distortion.  HOWEVER!!! -- when both Q1Factor and Q1 were set to 2 (2x2=4), I would have expected distortion because I couldn't get Q1 alone to 4 without distortion.  This is not what happened.  What happened was nothing short of a sonic miracle that I have been giddy over for two weeks.  What happened was a new dimension in sound that made me listen to everything I have again and go "So, That's what it's supposed to sound like!"  I nearly cried as I listened to my test track for the first time using the Q1/ Q1Factor settings of 2/2.  There was a richness and naturalness and ....timbre, my God, the harmonics...I didn't even know they were there.  The only downside, which made me think for a little while that I was actually mistaking distortion for richness, is there was a muddiness compared to other settings.  I couldn't mess with my Clockres of 1ms (for my computer it is the highest I can go [WHY?], and 0.5ms destroys the rich sound), so I put SFS to 2 to brighten it.  Not much better, and a little harsher than I wanted.  Then, This week, I made the bold move to go to SFS of 430 (at 450 the sound does indeed start to collapse.  You guys are amazing in your observations)  For reasons I don't understand, SFS of 430 on these settings took the muddiness away and brought everything forward just right and natural, making everything clear for full volume listening.  It was just AMAZING! 

Now let me be clear.  Only KS:Special mode Q1-2, Q1Factor-2, was able to create this sound.  NOTHING came even close, and it was very easy to destroy the quality with ClockRes settings, or using other Q settings, or even other buffer sizes than my 256.  Also I use the Fidelizer program sometimes for other system audio (it's very good for overall tweaking!), but noticed when I did and then played XHE the magic was gone, as if Fidelizer had changed something important to the synergy I was getting.  I really wish I knew what was going on, because only this VERY specific setting creates this sound which I now consider the only true representation of my music and makes jPlay (and other XHE settings) sound like junk.  Have I found the perfect calibration for my DAC, the Matric mini-i through USB?  Or is there some other explanation?
Full disclosure: I use Sennheiser 580 headphones from my Mini-i DAC, so no speaker examples to go by.
Thanks for reading and I hope this proves insightful for somebody.  Peter, I'm sure you're going to be intrigued with the successful use of your new Q1Factor, especially in this unexpected way.
Logged

USB to Matrix Mini-i (16bit 48Khz max)  (0.9z-7)
Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit SP1 on SSD, XX on other SSD, music on SATAII spinning disk (on SATA3 port of MB!), MB is Z77 Gigabyte G1 sniper m3, Ivy Bridge i5 3570, / Engine#4 Special Mode / Q1/2/3/4/5 = 2/0/0/0/0 / Q1Factor = 2 (Dev.Buffer = 256) / ClockRes = 1ms / Straight Contiguous / SFS = 430 / not Invert / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Unattended playback All off especially LAN!
PeterSt
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« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2012, 11:53:16 am »

Hey hey, what a (nice) story !! And whether you are such a newb ? I'm not sure. Happy

Well, I must look into the code what it precisely can be what creates this sound. But I already know : it takes reasoning and a deep look into the OS what can be special about this. Something to learn (from) I guess ...

That ClockRes of 1ms will be caused by something else being active, creating that. Can even be Fidelizer (remember that Fidelizer was created from what we do in here (as was JPlay btw)). Otherwise playing Hires can incur for it. And of course you will know that WASAPI urges for 10ms.

I don't want to talk you into a license, but it should be the most interesting for yourself (but maybe even more for me) what happens when you are able to use Minimized OS with these settings. So, as how you use it now everything will be shut off just the same, but sound wise it is no comparison with the Minimized OS. Regarding this Fildelizer will incur for similar, BUT it uses other tricks which do not work at all (ok, IMHO). BUT, if Minimized gives you the same (less good) effect, then you may have found a combination which just works best with NOT Minimized (but shut all down). See ? that is why it is interesting. And of course nobody really is trying those things (with a license).

It is very nice of you that you took the effort to report all as you did, because it it also open to "more"/"better" or possibly te opposite; this latter is about your (very good) idea of actually just distortions being in order but that implying just the better sound. To that regard the SFS=430 solution looks a bit dangerous. So, I *know* (ehm, by now and with the great help of all the guys like you) that it will smoothen out. However, I am as far (but not 100% sure yet) that if *that* is needed for the solution, something may still be inherently wrong elsewhere. So, just a reminder for when you have 0.9z-7(-3) Activated, it may be a first thing to push down again. Variate at least between SFS=2 and =60 (I don't mean in between) and preferrably try the older recordings (60's). In my experience they can sound crazily good (better than today's) but it also is the most fragile; If you don't find them to sound nice at all (with any setting), blame my DAC (haha).

Well, great stuff.
Might you not hear me back on this "investigation" in a few weeks, just stuff in a reminder; I really want to do this, but I won't be able to find the time right now (and next I might forget).

Thanks again,
Peter


PS: I myself can't use Special Mode (again blame my DAC), otherwise I would have tried right away.

Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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benananda
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« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2012, 07:04:24 pm »

Thanks Peter for your response.  I do plan to activate and use minOS feature, I just want to try everything and get it right first. Of course, you are implying that sound may change with minOS and other unlocked features maybe for good or bad, and I might need to adjust.  More tweaking goodness and hours lost! lol. 
Update on ClockRes: I can't find any reason or program that locks it to 1ms.  Perhaps minOS will help?  On SFS, I tried going from 2 to 60 like you said.  At 2 it's flat and in my face, extremely detailed but not natural.  At 60 it's more full-bodied, and less harsh, less apparent 'detail'. Then I tried going higher and it seemed maybe better but not until I got to 430 did it truly become 'resonant' that is like the music had room to breathe and expand to fill the natural space.  It also sounds detailed again, but in a different way than 2, not artificial but naturally revealing.  It's worth mentioning again that I'm using Sennheiser 580 headphones not speakers.  I will play with other phones to see if I get similar results.
Just say that SFS adjustment was more like fine tuning while the Q1/Q1factor combination of 2/2 on KS:special was like flipping a switch.
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USB to Matrix Mini-i (16bit 48Khz max)  (0.9z-7)
Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit SP1 on SSD, XX on other SSD, music on SATAII spinning disk (on SATA3 port of MB!), MB is Z77 Gigabyte G1 sniper m3, Ivy Bridge i5 3570, / Engine#4 Special Mode / Q1/2/3/4/5 = 2/0/0/0/0 / Q1Factor = 2 (Dev.Buffer = 256) / ClockRes = 1ms / Straight Contiguous / SFS = 430 / not Invert / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Unattended playback All off especially LAN!
benananda
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« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2012, 07:13:47 pm »

With the Matrix Mini-i DAC I was able to get this to work, but  it can only get 16/48khz through USB.  Been thinking of getting an Audiophilieo 2 or JK MK3 to get 24/192, but I'm afraid that will affect the synergy I found, and for such a high price!  Anyone have experience using these or know what it would do to the interchange between xxhighend and the DAC?
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USB to Matrix Mini-i (16bit 48Khz max)  (0.9z-7)
Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit SP1 on SSD, XX on other SSD, music on SATAII spinning disk (on SATA3 port of MB!), MB is Z77 Gigabyte G1 sniper m3, Ivy Bridge i5 3570, / Engine#4 Special Mode / Q1/2/3/4/5 = 2/0/0/0/0 / Q1Factor = 2 (Dev.Buffer = 256) / ClockRes = 1ms / Straight Contiguous / SFS = 430 / not Invert / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Unattended playback All off especially LAN!
PeterSt
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« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2012, 11:23:25 pm »

Quote
Update on ClockRes: I can't find any reason or program that locks it to 1ms.  Perhaps minOS will help?

I must honestly say that I have encountered similarly. However, now clue how this relates to Minimzied OS, but it seems it does. Meaning : once you are into that the message (and "culprit") and at some stage it disappears, but after that it also won't reappear in Normal OS.

Anyway please notice that this is under the control of the OS herself, and when she thinks is is necessary to "look more often" (lower ClockRes number), it does. But, this is not better for SQ to my personal experience.

So to be clear : at normal daily usage I never see the message, but with new OS installs I sure do. Only at first ...

Regards,
Peter
Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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