Bluetooth vs. wired SQ

[manisandher]

A very quick post for now... it's been a very long day and I have a long-haul flight tomorrow morning.

I finally got around to putting Le Monster down in the basement. This was a much more protracted endeavour than I thought it'd be. But it's all done now and I can control XX via an iPad in my listening room. Cool...

... but I won't continue using it.

You see, like many others of you, I'm now getting better sound than I've ever had before. It's just beautiful. But unfortunately the BT connection just kills it. The effect on my system is almost like disengaging Phase Alignment... really.

I'm pretty certain it is because another USB port is necessarily being used. I can replicate the effect that the BT dongle has on the sound by simply enabling one of the many (all, apart from the one used by the NOS1 on the USB3.0 PCIe card) disabled USB ports.

I'm pretty gutted but SQ comes before anything. So I'm going to reinstall the monitor and keyboard in the listening room. Not a big deal - I already have a long-enough DVI cable and will just need to buy a couple of PS/2 extenders (I hope they exist!). Meanwhile, it's a quick dash down into the basement whenever I need to access XX. But quite honestly, it sounds so bloody good that I'm tending to just sit through the whole of whichever album is playing.

Sorry Peter, I know you put a lot of work into getting the BT PAN to work properly. And maybe it's just my machine that's particulary sensitive to extra USB devices. But it's not for me.

Mani.

[SeVeReD]

I'm still running wired and have a ps/2 extender 15ft ? I think (think I got it at New Egg here in the states).

What about getting another USB3.0 PCIe card?

[listening]

Hi Mani,

there is another option if Peter's solution isn't working for you. A friend of mine does a lot of unintrusive software testing via VGA and PS2 interfaces. He is using VGA capturing devices like http://www.epiphan.com/products/frame-grabbers and is happy with it.

Georg
 

[CoenP]

- I already have a long-enough DVI cable and will just need to buy a couple of PS/2 extenders (I hope they exist!). Meanwhile, it's a quick dash down into the basement whenever I need to access XX.

Mani,

Look for "KVM" (Keyboard, Video Mouse) cable. These are ubiquits since they are used for selecting between servers in a datacentre. Some even have USB (i.e. for connecting a usb drive with a new version of XX).

regards, Coen

[PeterSt]

Hi Mani,

I'm afraid we have another black hole phenomenon at hand here. So to start with the worse : In my case using the BT connection sounds better; The only real reason I can think of is that I never touch the audio PC after it is booted (so, only via RDC I do) and further ? further it is the dangerous field of noise which possibly is added because of using that USB port, that once again working as a filter (and that thus working out for the better in my situation).

My situation :

- USB2 is active all over.
- NOS1 connected to MoBo USB3.
- 9 internal hdds connected to MoBo SATAII (hdds of random brands/types/sizes).
- 2 external USB3 hdds through USB3 via USB3 hub (all externally powered).
- Nothing done whatsoever about fans or PSU.
- BT dongle in USB2.
- All services shut off, but RCD on.
- Audio PC's monitor physically switched off (VGA stays connected).

I'd say I have the best sound of the whole world at this moment, but it becomes dangerous to bet (just because you guys can theoretically have the same by now (0.9z-7)). So let's not bet about it anyway.

but

The "XXHighEnd PC" produces the again better sound (which 'd make me lose the bet right away), and this is not the above "my audio PC". It carries way more fundament and shows far more snap.
I did not test the difference with BT active, but I now will soon.
No noise impeding stuf is in this PC and it is carefully built up. This may make a difference at adding a USB(2) device. Thus, adding something which creates noise to something which should be relatively noise free, is different from adding a USB2 device to a noisy environment. And to keep in mind : the more frequencies (of noise) added to noise (which is frequencies) the better the pattern randomizes into something we'd call white noise. And as said before, it thus will be so that the less noise there inherently is, the more it will be profound.

This is all dangerous stuff ...

When BT shows a clear worse sound, it indeed should be the idea to have some sufficiently long runs of VGA and PS/2. This is just the other way of controlling your audio PC. Nothing new too of course, and I did it all the time like that. But it is no nice handheld, so there are differences.
The problem starts when BT sounds better like in my case, while in your case it does not. Well, what I would do is find that means that makes it sound better or equal at least. Could even be USB3 connected ...


Right, a lot of blahblah as usual, but all I wanted to make clear is that this will not be a definite something;
Testing a XXHighEnd PC may shed some further light, hopefully.

Thanks for sharing Mani,
Peter

[PeterSt]

PS:

Personally I'd never look for KVM solutions. It can only bring more noise. So, convenient maybe, but no chance for LESS noise ever.

Unless you explicitly look for more noise. And in my view, and by now, this is not stupid thinking (see previous post).

I still think that the NOS1 USB3 connection is in this same field (of more noise) ...

[CoenP]

Hi Peter,

PS:

Personally I'd never look for KVM solutions. It can only bring more noise. So, convenient maybe, but no chance for LESS noise ever.

Like the KVM cable is acting as antenna? Or interference from video to mouse/keyboard? I would say it is at least a passive solution (used as extention cable without switch) compared to any usb device and has therefore inherently less structured noise.

Well, anyway I'd rather use the tablet as a controller ditching the monitor in favour of bt. Time will tell.

Oh, If anyone still thinks of the KVM solution, don't forget to order the male to female adapters alongside! (like female in, female out)

Regards, Coen

[PeterSt]

Like the KVM cable is acting as antenna? Or interference from video to mouse/keyboard?

No. It works like a "sub computer". So, a bit depending on the solution it's an extension of PCI(e) and at the end of the line all is "redone". So, it is just another rather large process (of emulation). Notice that even audio will work at the endpoint (when implemented by the manufacturer). Of course all is to be sourced from the Audio PC ...

Peter

[CoenP]

Peter,

Are we talking about the same thing? Shure the PS/2 chip is connected to PCI-e, but to add only an extention cable?

See below for what I think a KVM cable is...

regards, Coen

[PeterSt]

Are we talking about the same thing?

Hahaha no. But look here :

Look for "KVM" (Keyboard, Video Mouse) cable. These are ubiquits since they are used for selecting between servers in a datacentre. Some even have USB (i.e. for connecting a usb drive with a new version of XX).

With my sometimes fast reading inabilities I read this as a KVM extender. Well, okay, you tell me how USB goes through a PS/2 or VGA cable ... 
So, whether you made the mistake of adding USB with some selection of servers in between (I don't see how that relates without real KVM extenders), ... KVM extenders are not the way to go. But, they come in simple formats, very extensive and "middle" (example of the latter : http://www.adder.com/products/adderlink-x2-multiscreen)

Long story short : of course those cables from your pictures are harmless. But I think it was me who told to use that (or at least I am using them in 12m runs).

Regards,
Peter

[CoenP]

Ok!

I'm shure Mani has enough with some extra length for the K, V and M cables. I've a 5 meter version in use, like a very basic remote control.

An (integrated) USB extender may become handy when your pc is in the beasement . just don't plug anything in if you don't need it!

regards, Coen

[AlainGr]

Peter,

I am not sure what you mean is better between a KVM extender and a Bluetooth setup ?

I have managed to have Bluetooth work and I even put things further by using unattended (that I did not really use before).

All works fine ! The music that was already extremely good is even better

Alain

[PeterSt]

Hi Alain,

I am not sure what you mean is better between a KVM extender and a Bluetooth setup ?

Did I express myself about this ? I don't know that ...
What I did say though is that the real KVM setup (so, not only a bunch of simple cables) will not be for the better. That's all.
(if you like, compare it with your Adnaco trial; this fails for similar reasons (but I must work on that further)).

Regards,
Peter

[AlainGr]

Hi Alain,

I am not sure what you mean is better between a KVM extender and a Bluetooth setup ?

Did I express myself about this ? I don't know that ...
What I did say though is that the real KVM setup (so, not only a bunch of simple cables) will not be for the better. That's all.
(if you like, compare it with your Adnaco trial; this fails for similar reasons (but I must work on that further)).

Regards,
Peter

Hi Peter,

Adnaco was not a good experience. Lots of spikes in the CPU performance monitor and a sound that was congested...

Regards,

Alain

[manisandher]

When BT shows a clear worse sound, it indeed should be the idea to have some sufficiently long runs of VGA and PS/2. This is just the other way of controlling your audio PC. Nothing new too of course, and I did it all the time like that. But it is no nice handheld, so there are differences.
The problem starts when BT sounds better like in my case, while in your case it does not. Well, what I would do is find that means that makes it sound better or equal at least. Could even be USB3 connected ...

I tried the BT connection again today just to make sure I  wasn't imagining things. Unfortunately, I wasn't. Don't get me wrong, the sound is not totally destroyed, but the magic is gone. Magic that I've just never heard before in my system. It's hard to describe. The closest I can get to is a 'sweetness' and 'delicacy' to the sound that seems very, very fragile to any changes.

I also tried RDC via the LAN. Far inferior to the BT PAN in my setup.

I'll try the BT PAN with a few USB permutations at some point (PCIe, USB3 internal, USB2 and loading all other USB ports, etc). But a couple of 5m PS/2 extenders arrived today. I'm going to test them to make sure they don't affect the sound at all and if not, I'll reinstall the monitor, keyboard and mouse in my main room. Sure I'm going to have to get up off the couch to use XX, which is probably quite a good thing in itself. But for this sound I'd walk to Peter's place and back if I had to.

Mani.